Before very many environmental estrogens showed up, some teen-aged boys had recorded testosterone levels of well past 1200, often closer to even 2000. Even in modern times, so long as it's in some other country other than the USA, you can still see 50 year old men with testosterone levels well over 900. But as said, it's individual. I can have a level of 15,000 and feel great. No "roid" rage at all. I would actually rather be around someone with a very high testosterone level, than a guy with a low level. Maybe some guys don't do well with a low level or something, because some of these guys apparently don't feel good and are even dangerous. When my level was low, I was just crazy and completely unpredictable. I would turn on anyone at any time, and even I didn't know what I was going to do next. I felt like I was always over-dosed on caffeine all the time, extremely jittery. But, I'm the most calm when using between 250-400mg/wk of Cypionate, even though some would call that a high level. Its not for me. And a low level for the above poster, may not be "low" for him. Bottom line is, it should be up to the person to decide what he wants, as only he knows what he feels. These numbers are only a reference, and there is even some evidence that shows some men may be more resistant or sensitive to testosterone, like some people are more resistant or sensitive to insulin, therefore making numbers written in stone, completely useless altogether.

nullorchis (imported) wrote: Sun Sep 07, 2008 9:15 pm Did you, do you have too much natural, or replacement testosterone in your body? What was it like? Emotionally, physically. Any permanent positive or negative side effects?

Did not notice anything emotional, other than sexual. (I guess thats kind of emotional in a way) I felt like I needed sex far more often, though wasn't really any more horny than when on a "normal" dose.

Physically, I would say, the temporary effect was very rounded looking muscles, and an increase in penis girth.

Permanently, I noticed, most of the increase in penis girth stayed with me, even well after the dose was lowered.

Testman,

Can you list environmental estrogens? I'd be interested in knowing.

Thanks in advance!

Dave in Michigan

Testman (imported) wrote: Tue Nov 04, 2008 6:11 pm Before very many environmental estrogens showed up, some teen-aged boys had recorded testosterone levels of well past 1200, often closer to even 2000. Even in modern times, so long as it's in some other country other than the USA, you can still see 50 year old men with testosterone levels well over 900. But as said, it's individual. I can have a level of 15,000 and feel great. No "roid" rage at all. I would actually rather be around someone with a very high testosterone level, than a guy with a low level. Maybe some guys don't do well with a low level or something, because some of these guys apparently don't feel good and are even dangerous. When my level was low, I was just crazy and completely unpredictable. I would turn on anyone at any time, and even I didn't know what I was going to do next. I felt like I was always over-dosed on caffeine all the time, extremely jittery. But, I'm the most calm when using between 250-400mg/wk of Cypionate, even though some would call that a high level. Its not for me. And a low level for the above poster, may not be "low" for him. Bottom line is, it should be up to the person to decide what he wants, as only he knows what he feels. These numbers are only a reference, and there is even some evidence that shows some men may be more resistant or sensitive to testosterone, like some people are more resistant or sensitive to insulin, therefore making numbers written in stone, completely useless altogether.

Did not notice anything emotional, other than sexual. (I guess thats kind of emotional in a way) I felt like I needed sex far more often, though wasn't really any more horny than when on a "normal" dose.

Physically, I would say, the temporary effect was very rounded looking muscles, and an increase in penis girth.

Permanently, I noticed, most of the increase in penis girth stayed with me, even well after the dose was lowered.

nutme248 (imported) wrote: Tue Nov 04, 2008 7:57 pm Testman,

Can you list environmental estrogens? I'd be interested in knowing.

Thanks in advance!

Dave in Michigan

What you may want to do is a quick search for "xenoestrogens (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenoestrogen)". There are quite a few out there, and the list may surprise you. Everything from FD&C Red #3, to food preservatives, to a number of 'plasticizers'. (Plasticizers are chemicals which are used to soften plastics, increasing their flexibility. Such as in plastic cups, plastic soda and water bottles, plastic wrap, leftover containers, etc, etc, etc)

The sad thing is, even if we immediately banned the use of any substance known to have estrogen-like qualities, there's so many tons of this crap in landfills, the oceans, the environment in general, that we'd still be dealing with their effects in a hundred years.

Regarding:

cordonone (imported) wrote: Tue Nov 04, 2008 11:20 am I'm not sure that I agree with your second paragraph. Castrating someone because he has made a thoughtful decision, informed by advice from doctors and mental health professionals, is one thing. Castrating someone to study the effects of a lack of testosterone is a little macabre. There are plenty of men without testes either genetically or as a result of accidents, war or unrelated medical intervention to do such studies.

Goodness no. I never meant to imply that someone should be castrated just to study the before and after effects of testosterone (except in a fictional story). That would be something that the Nazi's might do, but not a civilized society.

I just meant that if society let people voluntarily be castrated that it would help medical understanding of the entire hormonal process throughout the entire body in a before and after scenario. Since we are all similar, but not the same, data could be collected over time regarding age, race, DNA, and other factors. The testes could be medically analyzed and saved for future analytical tests that might be developed in the future. This would be done for the purpose of helping men who have no interest in being castrated but who are castrates (men who have physical testes but they don't work).

You would never, however, want to introduce money into this scenario. This would all have to be voluntary. I can just see some less ethical societies actually pay men for pre and post castration studies. There are a lot of people who are so poor, so desperate, they will do anything just to survive, like in India and Pakistan and elsewhere. People sell internal organs that are used in medical transplants. I imagine that people would sell their testes for transplants or for medical studies were it possible to do so. I didn't know that testes transplants were possible until I read the valid article about one that was done in China. It was actually a success. The man, who had previously been castrated (I dont' know why) regained his virility and was capable of fathering children. He was married. Sadly he and his wife could not handle the mental and emotional issues of him having another man's balls in his sack, or of having the other man's children. So he had the transplanted testicles removed and they were not re-used again.

True shades of Frankenstein.

Some of these substances are also suspected of making a person resistant to testosterone. So even with a level that looks good on paper, he may not be feeling up to that level. And there's just no way of knowing, other than asking him what he feels. There's no test for testosterone sensitivity. Hopefully, a growing number of docs are listening.