Randy,

I am a Christian too, so I have an idea of where you are coming from.

While I am not you or God and can't know the desires of either, I can say that I find it very unlikely you are one of the people referred to in Matthew 19:12. In other words, I do not believe that God is calling you to a life as a eunuch.

When Christ spoke those words, he knew that very few, and by that I mean very few, would be able to accept it. He certainly was not speaking to every man with a high sex drive, because if he was, millions of Christian males would need to go out and be castrated. In fact, I doubt that sex drive has anything to do with whom he calls - there is a lot more to being a eunuch and a lot more symbolism surrounding the status than just a lowered sex drive.

If you cut off your testicles to control your sex drive, you are cheating. God gave the sex drive to humans as a gift. He had his reasons for giving males a typically higher sex drive. But like everything else God gave us to enjoy, he prefers it best when we are enjoying it in moderation.

Now, accepting Christ as your savior is only the beginning. God wants each of us to go on beyond that point and grow into spiritually mature individuals. That happens through learning self-control, among other things. However, cutting your testicles off to learn to control your sex drive is cheating. You are not learning the hard way by spending time in his word and denying yourself until you have learned to control it with your testicles intact. And that is how God intends for you to control your sex drive - with your testicles intact. Any other way is taking the easy way out, and it is not learning to become spiritually mature. If you have nothing to control by removing the source of your sexual urges, then of course you won't have any problems getting yourself into trouble. You have to have the temptation there and then learn to control it - it is the only way.

Living a life as a eunuch is not easy. Very few can handle it. God has only given that burden to very few. Most men who voluntarily castrate themselves (as well as those who are castrated for medical reasons) are of the second category, those who are made eunuchs of men.

Although my castration was never for religious reasons, I learned very quickly that I was not meant to live the life of a eunuch. I want to have sexual urges. If you lose yours, I can guarantee you that you will miss them. Sex is an important part of life. Don't give it up if you don't have to.

And I can't even encourage you to jump right into chemical castration because I don't believe it is 100% reversible, even after only a short period of time. I think you need to sort through this yourself, and maybe with the help of a licensed professional (perhaps even a spiritual leader).

You need to slow down and think this through rationally. You can learn to control your sex drive without cutting off your testicles. But it will not happen overnight. It will take years of spending time in God's word and letting it change you into the person God wants you to be. I can guarantee you this will make him a lot happier than taking the easy way out.

hello everyone, wow such great conversation, you sure gave me a lot of think and pray about. so thank you, i will respond to each of your posts.

The Lurker (imported) wrote: Fri Apr 18, 2008 11:43 pm As a minister, I must advise against castration as a way to be faithful to your perception of God's wishes.

Discipline is paramount in true worship. If you castrate yourself as a way to avoid temptation, you are really cheating yourself out of the richness that sexual relations add to the human experience. And frankly, you are taking the easy way out. Freewill is both a gift and a daily test from God.

i can assure you, God wants you to have sex. At the appropriate time, in the appropriate place.

You mention that you seek fellowship with God. For whatever reason, you seem to believe that sexual urges are inappropriate and will divorce you from God. This can not be true, as God gave you those urges, and with good reason. One of your purposes is to propagate the human species as God has commanded. How can you do this when you are castrated?

I want to be clear about something here: Sex and sexual urges are not vices, nor is masturbation. Sex is not dirty and having sex does not in any way break your communion with God. There are a multitude of reasons why the Judeo/Christian culture has come to think of sex as wrong or bad or dirty, but none of them have anything to do with God.

I cannot be more emphatic about this. DO NOT CASTRATE YOURSELF FOR GOD. I have never met him, and I am not 100% sure of this, but I am pretty darn sure He does not want this for you.

Your friend is correct, if you must do this, go chemically first. Once you lose them, God cannot give them back to you...

hi the lurker, yo

jemagirl (imported) wrote: Sat Apr 19, 2008 12:00 am ur message is so stifling. i will get back to you later.

I would reccommend chemicle castration even if you are shure this is what you want. Because this is what you want now you may have regrets when you get a little older. PLUS BIG PLUS your urge for sex will be diminishing in not too many years any way. On top of that there are long term health considerations such as osteopor

osis to consider. It is your decision for better or worse.

hi jemagirl. yes i am at the beginning of my sexual peak at 25, the next time i might notice a decline is when im 30. so what am i supposed to stumble and suffer for 5 more years and hope? i dont even know if i will be around for 5 more years. at some point i have to make a decision to go forward and that time is now for me. i have a mens study group i meet with once a week and when the subject comes to lust they all get really nervous and quiet. they are all older than me upwards of 45..50 years old and still struggle daily/hourly with lust. i am sure we all know men 50 years old and higher that still have a strong libido. i can think of 5 off the top of my head from the EA.

yes i mentioned my concern for being susceptible to osteo as my #1 physical side effect. i am living now as if i am already a eunuch. eating right, taking supplements and exercising. i will do everything i can to prevent osteoporosis.

and y

incuse (imported) wrote: Sat Apr 19, 2008 12:13 am es of course it is my decision but i still welcome all to give me advise, my mind is never made up set in stone.

God gave you testicles. Seems kind of poor taste to remove what God gave you as your way to please God. Seems like God would be insulted a bit.

Consider what you're doing. For me it took more than just my desire for castration that made me go through with it. It came in from 3 angles. A perversion I had with young boys (never acted on anything, all in my head), my own desires for castration, and an experience I had during a suicide attempt where I saw God and it didn't accept my testicles into "heaven". The 3 together made me decide it was the right move. That lasted over the course of 5+ years and during that time I experimented with androcur & provera. Kinda funny, my friends were experimenting with weed and other recreation drugs. I played with anti-androgens.

A year of thought doesn't seem like enough to me. I say this because your 25 years old, at your sexual peak, and frustrated with your sexual thoughts. Think of what you'll feel when your 30, 40, 50 years old. Will you feel that you betrayed yourself years of sexual experiences ?

I am 27 years old. 5+ years to make the decision and the decision came from multiple angles and experimentation with anti-androgens. I was castrated by Kimmel when I was 25. I love how I feel and the mental state I've been in. It was the best action I could have made. I'd seriously be dead by now had I not gone through with the castration.

Be absolutely certain you want to do this. Try chemical castration. The drugs are eas

ily available and you have no excuse to not try them. There is no turning back once you get castrated.

Good luck.

yes God gave me testicles, had i been born a eunuch i would have grown up a lot different and not have gone thru many of the experiences that made me the man God wants me to be today. now He has presented me with the opportunity to change the body, He gave me, for His glory. i am acting on that opportunity. i do believe God's cosmic plan is to be in a monogamous relationship for most but not all. i am one of those very few who can accept this.

a year is plenty of time for me, i dont have kids of a spouse i let take my time and attention. in the past year i can say i have thought and prayed about this daily. and if not daily bi weekly i have studied the side effects, read PDFS, testimonies and everything else i can get my hands on. th

gareth19 (imported) wrote: Sat Apr 19, 2008 4:19 am is is the biggest decision i have ever made. to me 365 days is plenty of time to make an informed decision. granted its not 5 years but at some point i have to move.

The first thing that G

od says to Adam and Eve in the Bible is "Be fruitful and multiply." God is fully in favor of sex, why else would He have gone to so much trouble to make the equipment?

greetings gareth, Yes God is in favor of sex. i dont see sex as wrong and dirty. God gave it for procreation and pleasure. i believe sex is onl

Uncle Flo (imported) wrote: Sat Apr 19, 2008 6:15 am y to be enjoyed only in a monogamous Godly relationship/marriage. i am not married and i didnt say i want to stop having sex with my eve. i want to stop the masturbation, pornography, and lust. that is not in God's favor.

I must say that if you think you know the effects of castration from reading others accounts and in such a short time you will be very surprised at the reality of your own castration. The written accounts, as good as they are can not convey the reactions your mind and your body will produce. Talking with those who are already castrated can be helpful, but it still takes time to process all the information and to apply it to your personality. The only way to know how it will affect

you is a trial run and the only trial run is chemical castration for a suitable time (often longer than a year). My best advice is to go slowly be careful and listen to those of us who have your well being at heart. --FLO--

yo flo

i didnt say i know how castration will effect me, there will be different side effects and different cognitive changes in my brain nobody could have seen. i know the possibilities and how severe they can be. i joked around in my first post, just to make it funny when i reread it. i dont know if people saw that as a sign that i dont take the side effects serious. i do. with the people i have gotten good p

Milkman (imported) wrote: Sat Apr 19, 2008 6:57 am ost op information from on the EA, i came to the conclusion that everyone is different. i will not know which effects mental or physical changes will hit me until after.

why not try cc so i will know?, you

ask. i will address that in the last part of this post.

morning milkman

It does see a little hasty, but best of luck with what ever you decide..

JesusA (imported) wrote: Sat Apr 19, 2008 7:01 am . and if you back out, please post message, don't be embarrassed. Your experience and thoughts will help others decide .

it doesnt seem hasty to me, i feel late. maybe ot seems hasty because my appointment is in 2short weeks. a lot can change in that time. thank you for your good wishes. and yes i will keep you updated.

Hello Randy,

You’re getting some excellent advice here from people who really do care and who have your long-term best interests in mind. They know of what they are writing.

Rather than repeat their comments either on faith and castration or on the importance of a “trial run” with chemical castration, I want to add one more piece of, quite different, information to the mix: for males ages 18 to 25, the average frequency of masturbation (or other sexual relsease) is five to twenty t

imes per week. Two-thirds of all normal, healthy males, worldwide, fall within this range. About one-sixth are above and one-sixth below it.

Your reported frequency is right at the high end of the normal range, but is certainly NOT abnormal. Normal aging will bring down the frequency. You’re past your peak testosterone years already.

Jello Jesus

yes this all great information, a lot to think about and i have made many great friends on here. I really feel the love and genuine concern here. i a

Kangan (imported) wrote: Sat Apr 19, 2008 7:57 am m looking forward to talking to you this week sometime.

yep i dont think i am abnormal with my sexual drive. im on the high end of the normal side. but i dont want to be normal. i dont want to b

e a normal roller coaster Christian. up n down in and out. i want to be great for God. thru my studies i d

malenomore (imported) wrote: Sat Apr 19, 2008 8:25 am o not think natural aging will bring my sex drive where i want it to be: absolute zero.

I'm going to add my 2-cents worth.... You are seeking castration for all the wrong reasons. My guess is that you will find, after wards, that you will be extremely dissatisfied with the result.

well if i gave you a penny for your thoughts.. thats a net gain of 1 cent for me. 30,000 more of your posts and my castration bill will be paid. so get hot.

I'm in complete agreement with the last four posts here. The changes you will go through will be rather drastic at first and it takes a good long time to get used to them.I joked a little about my chemical castration and about the depression. I told all that I'd been depressed most of my life, so, it didn't worry me,but, then, in reality, it was much worse. For a long time, I wasn't able to function at all and then all the really bad thoughts set in, that I don't care to go into at this time. Please, if you've never experienced anything like severe depression, don't do the

final cut first, go the chemical route first!!!

At least you will have the chance to change your mind and to regroup!!! At least by doing the chemical route, you will be able to regulate your rate and be able to take your time to get used to things, but, with the final cut you will be stuck and forced to live with it, and take it from me it's no fun!! Please listen to what all the fine people on this board are telling you and take it slow.

mahalo malenomore.

i didnt say i wont get depression because im tough and an american or something. i might get a severe case. i was simply stating that i havent had depression and am less likely to get a severe case post op.

some other things that increase my success are my family history or good health. no diabetes no alzheimers, no obesity . i asked my mom and maternal grandmother about their menopausal symptoms, yeh real fun.... but there was no osteo, low hot flashes, no muc

nonuts (imported) wrote: Sat Apr 19, 2008 8:47 am h weight gain, low memory loss, and no gynecomastia, i dont know if that that happens in women but it didnt in them.

also according to my tax man i have no dependents.. say the worst happens and i can no longer function normally this decision will effect nobody but myself.

to make it clear,

i in no way take solace in there things but you must admit i do have an edge on "making it"

if you all want me to say it again, i understand the consequences i dont know what i have to do

bobbie (imported) wrote: Sat Apr 19, 2008 10:58 am to prove it to you.

Joking aside, getting castrated for this purpose, reminds me of the Heaven's Gate cult. There are other ways to control your sexual impulses, in fact that is the very definition of control. Control is not about changing the parameters of the test for a satisfactory outcome. Good luck to you.

well im not part of a authoritative cult. i go to a normal non denominational Christian church; no man ever suggested this to me. i came to the decison thru studying God's Word and it is between me and God. thank you for your good wishes.

I an not going to try to talk you out of castration. Trying to have a rational conversation about castration is impossible. You have all the answers. You just know your how your body and mind will change because you talked to others. You say you can handle depression, yet you say that you never experienced depression. I can not see any rational thinking that you can say you can handle depression. Depression is one of the most common mental problems people experience in life. I have not heard of anyone that has not gone through at least some form of depression after castration. The depression comes in many forms. For many it may be very minor.

Randy do you realize that castration only effects part of sexual part of the body? There is another organ if you call it an organ that has a major efect on how our body is effected on how we react to and with people. Many say the brain is the master sex organ. The brain controls erections. You can still get an erection, and even orgasm just with mental though. Grant it that it is much harder but can still happen. You can still see a good looking person coming down the street and have a reaction. May be very greatly reduced but just the same the brain does notice. It is part of our who we are.

You said that a lot of this castration desire was when you were born again. It changed your life. I know a great many people that were "born again". Let me pose a question to you. Something that was so fantastic happened to your life and changed it once could not something even greater happen later in your life. Have a second coming and be reborn again and find the castration is not part of that plan? just a thought.

I like many who have been trying to help you have been around this site for a long time. Many of us are castrated. We have gone through what will be happing to you. Some of your questions you ask are hard to really explain. Think of it is of trying to explain to a blind man what color is like. It is hard to relate things that you have to really experience to understand. That is why we suggest the chemical castration. We know that is not in your plans for it would a waste of time for you.

Randy please promise to keep up informed on a monthly or at least on a quarterly basis on you life changes and how greatly it has changed in so many different aspects. Let us know how you have been beating the depression from effecting your life.

We have a major problem in this site. So many guys like you are so sure of them self and how they will control the effects of castration. We here very much about them before castration. Once done they seem to go away and we no longer here from them. One would thing that if they were happy with their new life of being an eunuch they would come back and tell every one how great it is. Come back and tell guys like me how very wrong I was in warning them of the possible outcome. You would think they

would be encouraging others. They just do not seem to. If they are not happy then can we assume that they are ashamed to show up and admit how wrong they were and right we were?

Some are castrated and are happy with out the test drive. The ones with a long term age desire that has been part of them for many years are often happy. The ones that are on the younger side seem to be the unhappy more often for they did not experience enough of what life is all about first. The ones that take the longer road, chemical castration test are the most happiest.

bobbie

i have heard of people who had no depression post op. gpb3aol, kennath7, FlatBagger, sduyck_2000 all claim not to have had depression post op. again i dont say this will happen to me, everyone is different but it is possible not to have depression after being castrated.

that is one of the questions i asked, and still wonder. is what how castration effects the thought process on lust. oh man you guy want to get all deep into my brain and stuff...well here is one thing that will help me even if the mental sex organ takes over; without getting graphic ..my main fetish/desire during sex involved ejaculation and semen. if that desire was not fulfilled sex seemed boring. if my mind takes over post op it will know that it can not fulfill that desire anymore and hopefully that fetish will die. we will see. i know you can still emit some sort of fluid but thats still not enough to tame this desire.

if i find out i am misreading the peace and shouldnt be going thru the doors God has opened to me, i will be disappointed. but Jesus loves me very much and paid for my mistakes. if we take the history and societal norms and even the bible out of it. i am simply doing this so i may focus on God and glorify him. i do not think He

BossTamsin (imported) wrote: Sat Apr 19, 2008 11:40 am will reject that.

i promise i will keep you informed, as soon as something worth mentioning happens. i hope to grow in this community and meet at moms on the west coast sometime.

i do understand that for those 4 that i mentioned there are plenty that have had adverse effects and even more that had such sever effects they arent here for whatever reason. i dont take that lightly. i have lived a good life for being young, i rode it till the wheels fell off. i havent had sex in 2 years and dont miss it. i momentarily desire it sure but i dont miss that lifestyle and am very happy with my quiet existence.

Your analogy is flawed. It's not like moving to Seattle, you are more like Columbus, heading off for Asia.

The one thing you don't seem to understand yet is that the map is not the territory. You are in effect proclaiming yourself a master handyman after watching a home renovation marathon on television.

Reading about castration, studying it, researching it, is not the same as actually being there. There's a vast difference, and blithely assuming ev

erything's gonna be just great is a recipe for disaster.

Quite honestly, if you think depression has anything at all to do with mental strength, you are deeply misguided and in for a surprise. In fact, I tend to find that those who have gone through depression are stronger mentally than those who have not.

However, as you've made up your mind (and you seem to have done so before ever arriving here), it's your life. Just remember, warnings can't help if you fail to listen. You don't know what the outcome will be. If you did, you wouldn't be here, you'd be off making a fortune in Vegas and in the lotto.

i i, ieunuch

do i just come off as a know-it-all or what? i dont claim to be a master handy man, but yes i did watch the marathon and i want to build that 2 story deck, its time. and i have my Dad to help me and He is a Good Carpenter.

i think i have covered the depression thing. i might get it i might not. i do know it can be devastating. i have studied it. i have made friends here who can help me deal with it. i dont know what else to say about depression.

and i am never sure of anything, i always leave room for alterations to my plans. im not bullheaded and dont have my mind made up. yes i have made a decision. i was going to get thru all these and get to the lurkers post and my chemical castration epilogue but i am getting tired. basically before i joined the EA i was 90-10 on not trying chemical castration and now i am closer to 50-50. i will update this tomorrow

love you all.

I can understand your dilemma, it is a constant dilemma that one Christian friend struggled with until he suddenly died last year at the age of 44. Here are my thoughts from my training, feel free to disagree.

Though sex in and of itself is not wrong in the eyes of God, Christian men struggle with controlling their sexual urges. There is the "old sinful man" struggle between the "new Spirit guided man." Meaning that once you become a Christian, you don't "stop" sinning" immediately or automatically, that's why Christians are accused of being hypocrites. They are hypocrites. Just because they placed there faith in Christ, does not mean that they stop sinning. Churches are filled with sinners, but their sins are forgiven once they place their faith in Christ, that's what the Bible teaches. But it also says that Christians should strive not to sin and if they sin, they should confess their sin(s) (1 John 1:7-9). The Bible also says that, "No temptation has seized you accept what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear (1 Cor. 10:13).

But the Bible also teaches that the devil prowls about seeking whom he may devour, which is why Christians are told to put on the full armor of God daily (Eph. 6:10-18). So the "sin" fight continues with Christians even after conversion/salvation. The Bible states that Christians are being conformed into the likeness of Christ on a daily basis (2 Cor. 3:18), but it takes years for a born-again believer

plix (imported) wrote: Sat Apr 19, 2008 7:53 pm to become spiritually mature.

This is what is referred to as "progressive sanctification" or "progressive holiness." So there is "a fight" that goes on between the "old sinful self" and the "new Spirit guided nature" that's received at salvation. Christians are called to be "holy" and are in the eyes of God, but practically, while on earth, even with the Holy Spirit's help, maintaining holy living is tough.

With that, I believe that Christian men are pummeled and tempted to commit sexual sin, and do sin. That's why so many Christian Pastors/priests commit sexual sin. It's a terrible struggle and fight, some believe that Paul's "thorn in the flesh" was his sexual struggle that he wanted God to take away. (But as God told him, "My grace is sufficient for you.") The Apostle Paul and others talked about it much, read Romans 6. There, Christians are told, "Shall we go on sinning so that grace may abound? By no means!" (Rom. 6:1) In verse 13 Paul says, "Do not offer the parts of your body to sin, as instruments of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God. Then in verse 14, "For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace." So on the one hand, Christ paid and died for sin, sin is washed away and God does not see the Christian as a sinner any more because his/her sin was and is atoned for, paid for by Christ. He was the final sacrifice for sin.

But the struggle, the sexual urges, are still difficult to control, which is why many Christian men in the past castrated themselves or had themselves castrated. It was the easy way to stop the sexual temptations and prevent sexual sin. Even a few "early church fathers" castrated themselves. Some early New Testament believers also took Jesus' words literally when he said, "If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands than to go into hell, where the fire never goes out. And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than have two feet and be thrown into hell. And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, where "their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched" (Mark 9:42-48). Does this include testicles? If your testicles cause you to sin, cut them off? I'm not telling you to do this, I understand the struggle and sympathize with you. Do as God leads you.

All I can say is "and people wonder why I have such a low opinion of religion".

Just one addition to the depression comments.

When my hormones were in the tank my GP said I had all the symptoms of depression.

Later when I went on HRT and was given a battery of mental health tests prior to my Orchiectomy I passed them all well enough to annoy the Doctor who said I would never be a patient.

The difference (In my case) was purely hormone levels!

No, this might not happen to you and there are others who say they have never had any symptoms of depression. However its important to say this and I hope others won't be too upset. How many of those men do we know were castrated? There have always been wannabes and fetish types that like to pretend and since no one on the forum is doing physical exams on new people joining the forum you have to take EVERYTHING you read her with a large grain of salt.

I think there are enough people saying depression is a problem to make it of value to consider that. However I also have a clue about your desire to reduce your drive. If you've been without a significant other for over 2 years at your age? Well I understand thats really rough. I remember being your age and being alone and understand the torture of this but... Is there some possibility that you might meet someone and if you have already slid over to the operating table and sacrificed your testes your not going to be able to appreciate that person the same way. And while HRT works for me there are others who warn it not the same. *I guess I wouldn't know since mine was on the fritz for I'm not sure how long.

I'm not sure what issues your trying to describe when you talk about sex in your world. Perhapes there are some damaging things that run through your head (Evil junk) that you want to get rid of? I can't walk in your shoes and so I know what I'm saying maybe totally off track.

However - If you want to walk in our shoes I hope you will reconsider or at worst use a drug to reduce your hormone levels before you submit to surgery. I know what I was like and how sure I was of so many things at your age. Its only much later that I realize how my decisions then would affect me and others so much later.

We are so "finite" trying to influence our universe.

Take care and choose well! *Wow I sound like a Jedi Master?!

There is definitely a carnal part of each of us and a spiritual part of each of us. A lot Christians make the mistake of thinking that all they have to do is accept Christ, and then the work is done. But it doesn't work that way.

What happens when you accept Christ is that your sins are forgiven. Does that mean you won't sin anymore? Certainly not. It means that when you do sin, it doesn't matter because Christ's blood has already paid for it.

A lot of Christians speak of a "break in fellowship with God" when they sin, and I don't understand this at all. There is no break in fellowship. Since Christ has already paid for that sin, you are just as close to God even after you sin. Sin does not have to draw you away from him. He has made it clear that your sins are forgiven because his son's blood has washed them away.

Very few Christians seem to understand the meaning of what Christ did for us. They accept him, but when they sin, they think they have to start all over again and have lost everything. That simply is not true. When you sin, it doesn't matter because Christ has already paid for that sin. This is key to continuing in the spritual journey. If you let your sins draw you away from God because you are condemning yourself every time you have a bad thought, then you will never get anywhere in your path to spritual maturity. You will spend your whole life trapped in your sins because you think they break off all contact between you and God when that simply is not true. Instead, because of what Christ did for you, you can be just as close to God no matter how many times you sin. Truly accepting this fact will deliver you out of condemnation and into the unconditional love of God.

Now, as I said before, this is a process. Once you accept that every sin you commit doesn't break you away from God, then you will be on the path toward becoming who God wants you to be. You can become your spiritual self that listens to God rather than carnal desire, but it takes time. Just accpeting Christ is not going to make you perfect. You make yourself as close to perfect as possible by

plix (imported) wrote: Sat Apr 19, 2008 7:53 pm spending time in God's word and letting it change you

r old thoughts into new ones. The more you do this, the closer you get. It takes years. Not days, weeks, or months. Years. You have to be patient during this process (patience is something you will learn as part of the process).

I can assure you that God loves you just as much no matter what kind of thoughts you have. He does want you to learn to control the thoughts, but by his way, not yours. His way is spending time in his word and listening to him. Cutting off your testicles might stop your sexual thoughts, but it isn't going to make you any more spiritually mature. That can only come with time and effort. And understanding. The first thing to understand is that these thoughts are part of your old self, and they are going to be there until you change into your new self. One quick fix isn't going to make that happen. Only by listening to God and his word and giving yourself the time needed to make the right changes happen.

Accepting Christ is only the beginning, not the end. You have a long ways to go. All I can do is encourage you to go the way God wants you to go - and with God there are never any quick fixes.

If you PM me, there is a book I would like to show you that deals with this issue of sin, condemnation, and what Christ has done for us. I think you will find it informative and helpful. If you are interested, let me know

"

randy (imported) wrote: Fri Apr 18, 2008 10:24 pm my biggest concern mentally is depression. i have never had depression and i do not think i will get depression post op. i am a very strong stable minded fellow. / anyway i have been proactive and studied depression and am prepar

mrt (imported) wrote: Sat Apr 19, 2008 11:50 am ed to take it on if it rears its ugly head.

"

I would have said the same thing about myself yet I was "diagnosed" with "depression" when I went in to see why my sex drive was nil and my wife was always mad at me and I could not think as clearly as well as loosing my ability to made decisions and having anxiety attacks. Low hormones was the problem and they all were solved when I went on HRT. I know my situation is not the same as anyone elses but this is the "norm" not the exception.

If your having problems now adding a series of new ones won't solve this. And having a strong sex drive is not such a bad problem *trust me it gets less as you age! Would not addressing the issue of Porn etc be of more value and make you a better person?

Hormones are more powerful then you give them credit for. Its not just a chemical that controls your sex drive. Your mood, energy, ability to think are ALL tied to your hormones. Its true some people are more (Or less) effected by low to no levels of them. And some get used to low levels while others do not but the most important point is that you don't know - what you don't know. And you can NOT know what its like without being castrated. And once they are gone your options shrink. I'm now 2x your age. There is no way I would jump into this at your age. Some people are suggesting chemical castration to test drive it. Frankly I think a far better plan is to seek a professional to talk to about this and deal with the source of the problem not the symptoms. Have you spoken to any clergy? Do you think any of them would suggest this course of action? Have you talked to a mental health expert? One or both of these options allow you to talk out your problems and perhapes resolve them without sliding over to an operating ta

ble and having your testes amputated.

God Bless you!

hi mr t.

as of right now im not going to take hrt. if the circumstances become too much to bear and i am no longer able to function, i will take hrt.

i have spoken to my pastors, via email to remain anonymous. they are split. i dont think any pastor would right out recommend castration because in todays society they might feel like they could be hel

Paolo wrote: Sat Apr 19, 2008 12:01 pm d liable somehow.

no i havent spoken with any mental health professionals, unless kristoff counts.

Hate to say it this way, but just wait 'til that first hot flash hits him...

Been there, done that...hormone fall-off, no matter ho

w it happens, is just a b*tch to deal with.

Then again, perhaps learning the hard way is best for some?

hmm hot flashes.... cant wait. i made this straw hat with a refillable ice pack stitched into the head hole. its pretty freakin epic. and i bought a sweat

JesusA (imported) wrote: Sat Apr 19, 2008 1:34 pm band in case i break out into the sweats i wont be all wet n wild.

any advise on how to prevent or at least deal with hot flashes besides hrt?

Randy has asked me to comment on the theology involved in Christian castration.

I’m always very reluctant to get involved in any theological argument. It’s a rat’s nest of conflicting arguments made over the 2,000 years of church history. Even an appeal to the “original documents’ is difficult, as we only have copies of copies of copies of the originals of those pieces that were compiled into the New Testament. The surviving texts and fragments of texts from the first few centuries of the Christian era show many differences in meaning, some of them quite serious. It has been claimed that there are more significant differences in the existing early copies than there are total words in the New Testament. Many of the decisions about which version to use when the final New Testament was compiled were political, rather than theological, ones. Even the decision as to which books to include was largely political, as there were many more early texts that were excluded than included. Many of them were considered to be canonical by one or more of the early Christian communities. The Acts of Thecla, for example, was revered right down through the Middle Ages, though it was condemned by the church heirarchy as far too woman-centered. Thecla was converted to Christian belief by Paul and traveled with him.

The most famous of the non-included works is probably the Gospel of Thomas, which had been known by name since early days, but of which an actual copy was only discovered in the Egyptian village of Nag Hamadi in 1945. Probably of greater theological import is part of a longer version of the Gospel of Mark that was discovered in 1958 in the library of the Greek Orthodox monastery of Mar Saba, located southeast of Jerusalem. It was referred to by some early Christain writers, but seemed to have disappeared. The document that was discovered dates to the middle of the second century, but it disturbs many contemporary Christian theologians because of its homoerotic overtones, e.g., this passage following the canonical Mark 10:34:

And, there are many other passages in very early Christian documents that contemporary Christians are likely to find profoundly disturbing. Tertullian (circa 160–225), a prolific author of early Christian works and considered by many to be the founder of Latin Christianity, makes the claim that the historical Jesus was a eunuch, as was the author of the Gospel of Matthew. This was believed by some early Christian communities and one such, the Valensians, believed that all true Christian males must be castrated. They were in the habit of kidnapping and castrating boys and men in order to save their souls.

The strongest competitor to Christianity in the Roman Empire in the early centuries of the Christian Era was the faith centered on the Mother of the Gods. Her consort, Attis, was self-castrated and the priests dedicated to her worship were eunuchs. There is strong evidence in early Christian writings that castration and eunuchs were denigrated partly to counter the influence of this competing faith. The Vatican was built on top of the largest temple in Rome dedicated to the Mother of the Gods and the Basilica di Santa Maria Maggiore (the largest church in Rome dedicated to Mary, Mother of God) is built on top of the site where the testicles of new priests of the Mother of the Gods were buried.

That the First Council of Nicea (325 CE) spent such an inordinate about of time and effort on the question of castration of Christian believers and on the position of eunuchs within the church heirarchy clearly indicates that it was a topic that generated a great deal of controversy. That the Council eventually decided to condemn the practice of Christian castration did not abolish the practice. It continued down to quite modern times in some branches of the church. Many of the Eastern patriarchs were eunuchs right down to the 15th century. There is evidence that monks in some Ethiopian monasteries were still being castrated to maintain celebacy as recently as the 19th century. The Skoptzy, a Russian Orthodox sect founded in 1721, probably did not invent the practice themselves, but adopted it from something in the rural church. The Skoptzy were still active as late as the beginning of World War II.

Without even going to the question of the castrati in the choirs of Hagia Sophia in Constantinople and later in Catholic choirs in the west (as recently as 1914 in official Catholic history, but possibly as recently as 1956), you can see that the issue of castration is highly contentious within the history of Christianity. The modern church (in all its world-wide variety) seems to have come out uniformly against the practice, but there is all of the history to contend with.

Having read a great deal of early Christian writings and having enjoyed theological argumentation for years, I think that the single strongest case that can be made FOR Christian castration within the texts that were compiled into the New Testament is the celebrated passage in Matthew 19:12

This passage clearly does not require true Christians to become eunuchs (the Valensians were wrong), but it does PERMIT it if certain conditions are met.

At the time that Jesus uttered these words, eunuchs were common enough in the eastern part of the Roman Empire that all who heard or read this KNEW at least one. They had first hand experience of what castration meant both physiologically and psychologically. Becoming a eunuch was, by no means, a leap into the unknown.

Today, there are not eunuchs surrounding us to provide living examples. To know if you are “able to receive it,” you need to do far more research. With the invention of chemical castration, you are able to make a better estimate of whether or not you are able. I think that the words of Jesus, if applied to today’s world, would require, at the very least, a trial period of chemical castration – six months minimum, a year better. It would also require a thorough examination of your own motives and per

sonal background leading you toward this choice.

It is clearly NOT a decision to be made lightly, or in haste.

My advice would be to slow down….

thank you Jesus

for posting that, very consceice. i recommend that the lurker rea

plix (imported) wrote: Sat Apr 19, 2008 7:53 pm ds that, to see that castration is permitted by God. it is not His express will but He will bless me.

how do i slow down? its been a year, yes it is in 2 weeks but im not exactly rushing into this.

Randy,

I am a Christian too, so I have an idea of where you are coming from.

While I am not you or God and can't know the desires of either, I can say that I find it very unlikely you are one of the people referred to in Matthew 19:12. In other words, I do not believe that God is calling you to a life as a eunuch.

When Christ spoke those words, he knew that very few, and by that I mean very few, would be able to accept it. He certainly was not speaking to every man with a high sex drive, because if he was, millions of Christian males would need to go out and be castrated. In fact, I doubt that sex drive has anything to do with whom he calls - there is a lot more to being a eunuch and a lot more symbolism surrounding the status than just a lowered sex drive.

If you cut off your testicles to control your sex drive, you are cheating. God gave the sex drive to humans as a gift. He had his reasons for giving males a typically higher sex drive. But like everything else God gave us to enjoy, he prefers it best when we are enjoying it in moderation.

Now, accepting Christ as your savior is only the beginning. God wants each of us to go on beyond that point and grow into spiritually mature individuals. That happens through learning self-control, among other things. However, cutting your testicles off to learn to control your sex drive is cheating. You are not learning the hard way by spending time in his word and denying yourself until you have learned to control it with your testicles intact. And that is how God intends for you to control your sex drive - with your testicles intact. Any other way is taking the easy way out, and it is not learning to become spiritually mature. If you have nothing to control by removing the source of your sexual urges, then of course you won't have any problems getting yourself into trouble. You have to have the temptation there and then learn to control it - it is the only way.

Living a life as a eunuch is not easy. Very few can handle it. God has only given that burden to very few. Most men who voluntarily castrate themselves (as well as those who are castrated for medical reasons) are of the second category, those who are made eunuchs of men.

Although my castration was never for religious reasons, I learned very quickly that I was not meant to live the life of a eunuch. I want to have sexual urges. If you lose yours, I can guarantee you that you will miss them. Sex is an important part of life. Don't give it up if you don't have to.

And I can't even encourage you to jump right into chemical castration because I don't believe it is 100% reversible, even after only a short period of time. I think you need to sort through this yourself, and maybe with the help of a licensed professional (perhaps even a spiritual leader).

You need to slow down and think this through rationally. You can learn to control your sex drive without cutting off your testicles. But it will not happen overni

ght. It will take years of spending time in God's word and letting it change you into the person God wants you to be. I can guarantee you this will make him a lot happier than taking the easy way out.

hi plix

this covers lurkers first post too. this is one thing that irritates me, is saying im taking the easy way out. first off pornography is an epidemic in the church, a study done by family radio said 30% of pastors in the last month intentionally viewed internet pornography, if those are the shepherds, what are the sheep doing? like i posted before i have a mens bible study where we get really deep into practical issues. none of them, not one had any answer for this besides read the bible and pray. i have done this for 2 years. not to boast but i do better than most men when it comes to this area.i do not seek to be better than most, i seek to be perfect and not trample the blood of Christ. the bible says if you continue in a pattern of sin you are of the devil. what is that pattern ? every week every month every 5 years ? i dont know.

what do you guys think, is it harder to live as a non hrt eunuch or struggle with lusts? being a eunuch will demand i call on God constantly for strength, metal clarity, and health in general just to get me thru the day. the difference between this thorn and the other is this.. being lethargic is not a sin.

i recently asked 25 men from ages 20-50, if they would make this trade. their dream home dream car dream dream job and 100 mil in the bank traded for their balls. only 1 said he would take the offer. my natural side would not make the trade, that is still part of me but i am making that sacrifice so i can devote more time to God and less to internet pornography, as lead by God.

also this is not easy on me monetarily, im not rich i make about 40 grand a year in california. which in texas is comparable to about a candaian nickle per days work.

this is one thing that really erks me is when people say this is the easy way out. sinning so that grace may abound is the easy way out. kurt cobain took the easy way out. if anything this is the hard road.

i dont think i need to start over when i sin. i cant say i fully understand the cross and nobody can. youre right He wants me to overcome by His means not mine. i have been lead by God thru this and am where i am because of Him.

like the bible says there will be some who can not accept this. i dont expect everyone to agree with me but

Hash (imported) wrote: Tue Apr 22, 2008 4:17 am dont tell me im not following God. things that are not specifically mentioned in the bible are dealt with personally thru prayer in an individual way. post masturbation God does convict me. maybe He doesnt for you but i am this is between me and God.

I can understand your dilemma, it is a constant dilemma that one Christian friend struggled with until he suddenly died last year at the age of 44. Here are my thoughts from my training, feel free to disagree.

Though sex in and of itself is not wrong in the eyes of God, Christian men struggle with controlling their sexual urges. There is the "old sinful man" struggle between the "new Spirit guided man." Meaning that once you become a Christian, you don't "stop" sinning" immediately or automatically, that's why Christians are accused of being hypocrites. They are hypocrites. Just because they placed there faith in Christ, does not mean that they stop sinning. Churches are filled with sinners, but their sins are forgiven once they place their faith in Christ, that's what the Bible teaches. But it also says that Christians should strive not to sin and if they sin, they should confess their sin(s) (1 John 1:7-9). The Bible also says that, "No temptation has seized you accept what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear (1 Cor. 10:13).

But the Bible also teaches that the devil prowls about seeking whom he may devour, which is why Christians are told to put on the full armor of God daily (E

ph. 6:10-18). So the "sin" f

Hash (imported) wrote: Tue Apr 22, 2008 4:17 am ight continues with Ch

plix (imported) wrote: Sat Apr 19, 2008 7:53 pm ristians even after conversion/

salvation. The Bible states that Christians are being conformed into the likeness of Christ on a daily basis (2 Cor. 3:18), but it takes years for a born-again believer to become spiritually mature. This is what is referred to as "progressive sanctification" or "progressive holiness." So there is "a fight" that goes on between the "old sinful self" and the "new Spirit guided nature" that's received at salvation. Christians are called to be "holy" and are in the eyes of God, but practically, while on earth, even with the Holy Spirit's help, maintaining holy living is tough.

With that, I believe that Christian men are pummeled and tempted to commit sexual sin, and do sin. That's why so many Christian Pastors/priests commit sexual sin. It's a terrible struggle and fight, some believe that Paul's "thorn in the flesh" was his sexual struggle that he wanted God to take away. (But as God told him, "My grace is sufficient for you.") The Apostle Paul and others talked about it much, read Romans 6. There, Christians are told, "Shall we go on sinning so that grace may abound? By no means!" (Rom. 6:1) In verse 13 Paul says, "Do not offer the parts of your body to sin, as instruments of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God. Then in verse 14, "For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace." So on the one hand, Christ paid and died for sin, sin is washed away and God does not see the Christian as a sinner any more because his/her sin was and is atoned for, paid for by Christ. He was the final sacrifice for sin.

But the struggle, the sexual urges, are still difficult to control, which is why many Christian men in the past castrated themselves or had themselves castrated. It was the easy way to stop the sexual temptations and prevent sexual sin. Even a few "early church fathers" castrated themselves. Some early New Testament believers also took Jesus' words literally when he said, "If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands than to go into hell, where the fire never goes out. And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than have two feet and be thrown into hell. And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to e

gpb3aol (imported) wrote: Tue Apr 22, 2008 8:26 am nter the kingdom of God with one eye than to

have two eyes and be thr

own into hell, where "their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched" (Mark 9:42-48). Does this include testicles? If your testicles cause you to sin, cut them off? I'm not telling you to do this, I understand the struggle and sympathize with you. Do as God leads you.

it feels good to be understood. and thank you.

All I can say is "and people wonder why I have such a low opinion of religion".

no we dont.

well this week has been great. i am spending it in fasting and prayer. i am still up in the air about taking hrt. i take it as a red flag when 20 people recommend it. but i still am 50/50. i hope to know within the week what my answer will be. so pray for me or cross your fingers. thanks

grace and peace

randy

I wish you well in whatever you decide. The only thing I don't understand is the lack of willingness to do the chemical castration route first. I found that most of my castration fantasy/desire totally disappeared while on depo provera then androcur. I went from pornaholic that was always looking for a more intense release to no porn and very little masturbation yet could always get it up for wife. Chemical castration gives you a chance to make a decission that is not influenced by having testosterone in the system which can be rather enlightening.

Randy

I wish you well and that god will bless your efforts your desires are good in that you want to become perfect and closer to god

I do have to warn you

Castration will not put an end to masturbation you can still be able to masturbate it’s just not as satisfying

If you are addicted to porn that addiction will not magically go away because you have no balls you can and will think dirty and perverted thoughts with out balls

First get help for your addictive disorders then seek castration trust me you will enjoy the out come a lot moor

If becoming perfect is your true goal then you must realize perfection and castration are two words that do not mix ( like water and oil) perfection comes through obedience to the word first spiritually or through your mental discipline then your body temporally outwardly manifest that obedience until it is filled with the holy ghost thus becoming one just as the father and son are one Being perfect

these scriptures do not say that they bring perfection your balls do not cause you to see the porn are you ready to pluck out your eyes as well your penis

Did not orgasm by it self are you ready to cut off your hand

[Mat 5:28] But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

[Mat 5:29] And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

[Mat 5:30] And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

We here at the E.A. only have your best interest in mind if you make the decision to be castrated and find out the hard way that it was the worst thing you ever did the rest of your life will be a living hell

I wish you all the best and my prayers will be that the lord will bless you in your journey of life

Randy-

I pray that you are safe and healthy at the end of your surgery. I apologize for stifling you.

I need(for my own well-being) to remind you, that you are supposed to have sexual urges. That's it, end of story. If you don't want them, fine. But if you are doing this to be vaulted in your divinity, you should reconsider.

I find a whole lot of irony in this thread as compared to your avatar. My impression of it suggests that you feel you are inhibited from achieving your spiritual goals by your sexual needs. The two are most certainly mutually exclusive, and one does not affect the other literally, but only figuratively. And then so only in your perceived need to be closer to God. You are as close to him now, as you will ever be. He walks beside you. Always.

Tread lightly...