Re: I Wonder
Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:43 pm
moi621 (imported) wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:57 pm I too agree with W. C. Fields, "when I use a word, it means what I want it to mean. It is a question of whether the person controls the word or the word controls the person. "
However, for clarity. Although I would not deny anyone their choice of of appropriate category, classification terminology. P.C. or not.
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/oriental
The term "oriental", with connotations of exoticism,at one time referred to the people, culture, and nations of the Near East. More recently it has been used more to refer generically to the people, culture, and nations of the Far East. Even more recently, in some places it has come to be considered objectionable or offensive, particularly in its noun form. While "the Orient" has become a somewhat dated term, "oriental", particularly as an adjective, still sees frequent use.
One complaint has been its frequent use by some to denigrate Asian people and people of Asian descent, which many feel has given the word itself a bad connotation. Others object to the term being used as a blanket term for people of Asian or East Asian descent, since that ignores the varied and often disparate cultures and histories of that area, thus emphasizing the sameness or indistinguishability of those cultures and peoples (and in reverse, imputing on the user a lack of awareness and concern for the cultural difference within Asia). A third reason given is that the term is so vague that it is never clear which countries are included within the term. Most users, however, do not employ the term with any malicious intent whatsoever, and view it as a convenient and innocent generic term in the absence of more precise information, equivalent to the frequent use of the term westerner in Asia.
Major objections to the term are fairly recent, and so it still sees frequent use, often by people unaware that objections to it exist. As awareness of the cultures in Asia has increased, its usage has decreased. Its occasional replacements, such as "Asian" and "East Asian", can also be seen as offensive by others. It can still be found in the mainstream media, though less frequently than in decades past. When used to describe Asian foods and other products, it raises fewer objections, and this remains one of the most acceptable ways of using the term. The atmosphere of sensitivity surrounding "oriental" suggests that it should be used with caution.
Or should the moderators deliver a ruling on what we call those sorts of gentiles?
Moi
Don't ever call me an Occidental!
at one time referred to the people, culture, and nations of the Near East. More recently it has been used more to refer generically to the people, culture, and nations of the Far East. Even more recently, in some places it has come to be considered objectionable or offensive, particularly in its noun form. While "the Orient" has become a somewhat dated term, "oriental", particularly as an adjective, still sees frequent use.
moi, don't get confused with the whole "i want it to mean what i mean" thing with the use of oriental. I'm one of those who will adamantly refuse to use a word because of the way it is used, as I've already expressed my views on terms such as "tranny" and "ladyboy" on these forums before.
However, in lieu of saying "Asian" which I am not because a) in UK it refers to people of Indian/Pakistani type ethinicity, b) although my official birthplace is Asia, I do not have any heart or soul for it to consider myself "Asian and in any case, since I wished to refer to my ethinicity, as my avatar picture shows my ethinicity but NOT my regional affiliation or birthplace, and saying "Asian" would be wrong in denoting my ethinicity, what should I say? I can't say East Asian, because I am NOT from East Asia. I would also suggest to use "East Asia" as a replacement for "oriental" is even more offensive since you are suggesting that you think Chinese people can't originate from anywhere else in the world, which is wrong on 2 counts, 1) the Chinese have migrated to all corners of the globe, native Chinese from America or Europe are not uncommon anymore and 2) China stretches from the East to arguably Central Asia, so as the basis for a regional identity, it isn't right to say "Asia" or "East Asia" either.
I would not say chinese because from the picture alone to most, you would not be able to tell if I am Korean, Chinese or Japanese and I wished to refer to my ethinic appearance in a general way to suggest that the moment you see someone of such ethinic appearance with a tray of food you assume it has to be something exotic. That assumption alone, is it not far more connotatively pander to exoticsm than any use of "oriental" can ever be?
And if it is disrespectful to the disparate cultures there, then may I ask you why is "European" not considered equally offensive? Europe is a region of even more disparate cultures, and yet we say "European" without batting an eyelid.
This is not a mindless "I'm allowed to because I belong to this category" use of the word either. I can fully justify its use with strong arguments that do not depend on "reclaiming the word" alone as an argument. Even if I wasn't ethinically oriental I'd still use, and justify its use.
Moi
you contribute to global warming.