Danielle (imported) wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:10 am Hi Janekane,

I am curious to know about HRT subsequent to your orchiectomy - - - have you been on any to maintain general overall health? My T level is very low because of the regimine outlined here, but I have been on Estrogen for a very long time. I believe that some sort of HRT is necessary to maintain healthy calcium levels in the blood, whether that hormone is Testesterone or Estrogen.

What is your experience?\

The only testosterone I have had since the summer of 1986 is that which is made elsewhere than in testicles (what testicles?) or is ingested in my diet. About three years after my orchiectomy, I came under the care of an internationally recognized endocrinologist, who decided to prescribe a Premarin and Provera regimin, which lasted for about 8 years, and gave me rather more of the body shape my brain has always deemed right for me. However, increased concerns regarding my genetic predisposition for cancer (familial ademomatous polyposis) and the availability of bone mineral density enhancing medications (now alendronate) resulted in discontinuance of HRT.

What do I do for calcium? Calcium pills resulted in a serious kidney stone problem and repeated lithotripsy. Not a good way to live. So that internationally recognized endocrinologist and I worked away at finding a solution, which is, I eat quite a lot of cheese, mozzarilla cheese, cheddar cheese, colby cheese, monterrey jack cheese, romano cheese, parmesan cheese. Not Limburger! Adequate niacin appears to control the side effects of eating quite a bit of cheese.

Because I was able to work enough, in suitable ways, to qualify for Social Security with Medicare, and because I was able to work, in suitable ways, to qualify for a form of "guaranteed" (what is a guarantee in these economic times?) government pension with lifetime heath care coverage (as in Medicare supplement), I am able to get proper blood chemistry testing as is medically indicated, and my "blood levels" are being maintained such as to give me a fairly decent chance for a fair number of more years of breathing.

About four years ago, when I was 68, some 21 years after my orchiectomy and without HRT, someone who is very physically disabled was given enough money to help pay for gasoline and asked me to help get property in storage near the gulf coast. I have a 1996 pickup truck and a 20 foot enclosed cargo trailer that I use from time to time in my work, and I drove, with this person, to the gulf coast area, in July, and filled the truck, the trailer, and the rack on top of the truck cap with this person's things. The work was strenuous, and I worked at loading the truck and trailer for some 14 hours a day, for about three days, essentially non-stop except to grab a drink of water in order to remain adequately hydrated.

How did I do that, without HRT and its muscle strengthening effects? I keep physically active. I attend to blood chemistry. Bone mineralization is a process involving osteoblasts, osteoclasts, and osteocytes. Physical exercise tends to promote osteoblast activity and reduce osteoclast activity, with osteocytes apparently functioning as the "strain gauges" which mediate osteoblast mineralization and osteoclast demineralization. That is a simple model.

However, I have chosen to behave in ways, as best I am able, which, from physical activity, tend to encourage maximizing bone strength and muscle strength and minimizing bone and muscle weakness.

I have a hunch that there is a tendency to think of bone strength in terms of calcium (bone mineral density). I find that to portend of possible harm, because bone mineral density is a major factor in bone strength when bone is loaded in compression, while bone collagen is a major factor when bone is loaded in tension. For those who relish the proper tensor calculus, bone invariably fails first in tension, even when it has observably failed from compression. How do I know and understand this? I did the maths. (apologies for my British English usage).

My experience? Exercise, exercise, exercise. When muscles become weak and cannot maintain adequate compression in bone loaded in both tension and compression (which really almost always happens), it is weak musculature which may often most wisely be considered as the proximate cause of osteoporitic bone fracture.

Your mileage... Because my main goal was not replicating my dad's and brother's cancer deaths, my actions regarding hormones may differ starkly with what is wise for people who did not inherit a sometimey-fatal tumor suppressor gene predicament.

That said, I am well over the threshold of being transgendered that, once off testosterone, I guess I would prefer to die from brittle bones than live another day with the "mental cloud" that I experienced for decades with testosterone.

Hi,

Thanks for the very thorough answer to my question. I have been on Premarin (right now, 0.9 mG / day {was higher in the beginning of the regimine}). I do not have any familial proclivities for cancer as far and wide as I can tell (but one never really knows for sure).

As for Calcium, as I am sure that you know, Vitamin D is an important metabolite for Calcium and that can be quite important too. As do you, I monitor my blood chemistry pretty often (twice per year per my endo's direction). So, far, everything has been looking good with no bad side effects - - - Cholestoral is low, HDL/LDL ratio is quite good. I think that part of that is related to diet, but also genetics too.

Anyway, I am glad to hear that you are doing well and managing your health. Certainly, an active lifestyle is essential, as you alluded to.

Danielle

TooMuchT,

There are quite a few married eunuchs in the forums. Your situation is like mine and many others.

Good luck with your progress. Your schedule for shots is similar to others. There is no rush.

Don

Thanks DonnyMac.

Yes I have studied this thread MANY times, and tried to pick out the bits of wisdom. For example, letting the swelling go down before re-injecting. And also the one animal study that showed that atrophy continues well after the last injection.

Interesting, googling "alcohol sclerosing injections" shows lots of hits about treatment for Morton's Neuroma, which as a runner, I knew was a painful foot nerve condition experienced by some runners. They treat it by injecting the inflamed nerve with a combination of marcaine (local anesthentic) and alcohol to deaden the nerve. Usually 2-4 treatments 7 to 14 days apart.

I was up and out of bed at 4am this morning and immediately poured the vodka and got the needle set up, as I wanted to get it done before I had time to get too nervous. I was only intending to inject 1 cc, but when I loaded up the syringe and bled the air, I was at 1.5 - I guess that was a sign . I went to work wearing compression running shorts under my work pants, and was comfortable all day. During restroom breaks, I noticed that the testicles were definitely warm. The left one swelled up more, but with no pain. Right one was less swollen, and was the one that radiated pain up to the abdomen for about an hour. It is still is a little tender this evening.

I did not go into this with any chemical castration experience, but 10 years ago I weighed about 80 lbs more than I do now, and had a much lower sex drive. When I lost the weight and got into good physical shape, my testosterone started raging, which was nice for a while, but then noticed it was really having adverse effect on my behavior. I am VERY active (finished an Ironman triathlon last fall), so it may sound strange that I want to reduce my T. And I worry a little what effect it will have on my continued athletic endeavors . But I would MUCH rather be rid of the constant frustration and the resulting behavior.

TooMuchT,

As a married eunuch with a wife who's had fibromyalgia for years, I can sympathize with you. My wife has never been very sexual and I always had to initiate sex, as a eunuch now I don't seek to have sex and couldn't really in the normal male way anymore. Castration has shrunk my penis and taken away my sexual urges, but just one word of caution, as your testicles die, you'll begin to experience some additional affects of castration that you must be ready for: Depression, this can seem to come out of nowhere. I had never experienced anything like it. You might not have ever experienced depression before, but you probably will after your castrated. I had to start using some testosterone to get my head right. My female doctor was very sympathetic and worked with me on getting me well. It's a hormonal thing, so just be ready for it. Also, your wife might notice your castration changes and you'll need to share with her about what's happening. That's good and healthy, don't neglect it.

As for your plan of taking it slow, that's good, if you try to hurry you might cause unnecessary problems. I would encourage to look for an older female doctor after you begin to notice that your testicles are dying. My current female doctor is very compassionate and she seems to enjoy having an older eunuch as one of her patients. She's amazed that enjoy being castrated.

TooMuchT. The only change I would make is to switch to Everclear. Like you, I started with 100 proof Smirnoff but quickly

unencumbered (imported) wrote: Sat Aug 27, 2011 4:53 pm switched to 190 proof Everclear,

which had a more palpable effect, very quickly. I think in CA only 151 proof Everclear is sold, but its better than using 100 proof vodka. Be safe and good luck.

Hash - I have had experience with depression - mainly situational - due to dealing with my wife's health problems and a couple of teenage girls (now grown up and moved out). Interestingly, I saw that SSRI's are often prescribed for hypersexuality. I had used Zoloft, and NO WAY do I want to go back in that direction. For me they did not kill my libido but simply made it impossible to orgasm. It was only when I switched to Wellbutrin that I got things turned around - lost weight, started exercising, and when I got healthy and had energy, I was had no need for the anti-depressant. So yes, I will keep an watchful eye out for that.

Nonamesplease - I understand Everclear will work faster, and I may give it a shot after I numb the nuts up a bit more with another shot or 2 of the vodka. But I am also really in NO rush right now. I'd like to see how things go with each shot, and kind of enjoy the journey It IS kind of exciting, and have to admit I thought about maybe pulling the next shot up Friday. But I have a busy active weekend on coming up, so it can wait till Monday.

Interesting I am feeling just a little tingly in the nuts - like when a shot of anesthetic is wearing off - if I squeeze them. . Otherwise soreness is gone, and just a slight bit of swelling remaining.

TooMuchT,

You might not want to hear this, but I have controlled my testosterone for a long time using compounded testosterone supplement. You might need to use this too if you start to feel weak and gain weight after you're castrated. In one respect, you get to control your testosterone level for many years. I've been able to keep mine at a low level, just enough to keep me healthy and free of

Hash (imported) wrote: Mon Apr 04, 2011 12:02 pm depression and osteoporosis.

As I've said many times before, after years of dosing with a small amount of HRT, I can no longer get my testosterone levels to go higher. When I try it has a reverse effect, so maybe you should vary the amount you use on a weekly or monthly basis, I'm not sure, just a suggestion.

Since the swelling and even the tingling were already gone, I decided to move up round 2 to Friday afternoon and gave each another 1.5cc shot of 100 proof vodka. This time swelling is less and really only had a little soreness. Trying to decide if I should up the next dose to 2cc, or just switch to Everclear 151 (all that is available in CA). Basically 2.25cc of 100 proof would be same amount of alcohol as 1.5cc of 151 proof Everclear.

Well, I thought I would throw my hat in the ring and see how this Alcohol injection stuff works. I have been on Androcur for 13 months now with a small 2 month break during a back surgery. I really hated how my body rebounded when I stopped the meds and my sex drive seemed to go into overdrive. After going back on the meds, I am again feeling more in control of my sexual urges, but still wonder if I can get my libido low enough to match my wifes. I have had regular checkups with my my Urologist sine the start and he was very supportive of my urge to lower my libido. I never was able to get my T levels much below 250 and always believed I would feel even better if they were lower. At my 1 year check up my Doc said he was leaving the practice and moving out of state. He said he would refer me to another of the Docs on staff be he was not sure how the other doc would react.

After evaluating all the options I decided Alcohol injection is the best way to get to the end result I desire. I did not even know if I would have the guts to inject my testicles. I got some needles and some everclear 190 proof and gave it a whirl. I was very surprised how easy it was for me to do the actual injection. It was like I was injecting someone else not my own body. I put in 1cc each and waited to see how I felt. After about 15 minutes I had an ache in my gut for about 3 hours but by the end of the day I felt fine. I even rode my bike for 20 miles. I waited 10 days and everything felt like it had returned to normal except my testicles seemed a little smaller than before. I decided to give each a 2cc load and see how things felt. The injection went very easy again and jest felt the familiar ache in my gut for about 1 day. I again waited about 10 days and yesterday I gave them another round of everclear. 1.7cc each this time, just to see how it feels. The initial pain was higher than before, but subsided again after a few hours.

So far I am feeling very hopeful that a few more rounds of this and I will have damaged them enough to not have to keep on taking the meds. I will wait until this fall and see how my testes feel and discuss it with my GP at my annual physical. I plan to answer all the normal questions regarding symptoms of low T and see if he finds anything.

I hope I can finally find the peace in life that comes with very low T that I have been seeking for years now. Thanks for all the info that has been posted in this thread, I would have never been able to get where I am today without everyone here.