What pronouns one uses is a personal matter, and should not bother anyone else at all.

What bothers me, however, are those folks who want to bite your head off when you get the pronouns wrong.

Sadly, much like common sense, common courtesy is going the way of the dodo bird, I think.

How did we ever determine sex before chromosomes were discovered? People that insist that chromosomes are the only thing that matter would change their mind if a mRNA procedure came along and could charge the chromosomes. They would just adjust the goalpost to reflect their view. Chromosomes tell you body which sex hormones to make which directs sex determination, so ultimately hormones determine sex and usually gender.

The same people that would argue against the idea that the mind can be a different gender than the body, believe their spirit will maintain their bodily gender after they die. Or that the sexless celestial beings that they worship, have a a gender. Sex/gender is only a thing in sexual reproduction.

Paolo wrote: Mon Jan 09, 2023 10:18 am What pronouns one uses is a personal matter, and should not bother anyone else at all.

Sorry if what I wrote gave off that vibe, that was not my intention. I was meaning that when I first heard of they/them pronouns, I thought it was weird from a grammatical stand point. Someone explained it to me that the plural "they" or "them" can also be a singular as well. I only looked at the grammar and it had no reflection on my opinion of the person. If someone wants to use they/them pronouns, I say "go for it" and I'll support their decision.

Paolo wrote: Mon Jan 09, 2023 10:18 am What bothers me, however, are those folks who want to bite your head off when you get the pronouns wrong.

I have a friend who switched from she/her pronouns to they/them. It took a couple for me to get it right. I told them "if I mess up, please know I'm not doing it intentionally" and just letting them know that I was trying made them happy. When people get upset, it's because people aren't giving the bare minimum (ie: using the correct pronouns). But them knowing you are actively trying, it gets overlooked, no matter how embarrassing.

JessicaH (imported) wrote: Mon Jan 09, 2023 2:46 pm How did we ever determine sex before chromosomes were discovered? People that insist that chromosomes are the only thing that matter would change their mind if a mRNA procedure came along and could charge the chromosomes. They would just adjust the goalpost to reflect their view. Chromosomes tell you body which sex hormones to make which directs sex determination, so ultimately hormones determine sex and usually gender.

The same people that would argue against the idea that the mind can be a different gender than the body, believe their spirit will maintain their bodily gender after they die. Or that the sexless celestial beings that they worship, have a a gender. Sex/gender is only a thing in sexual reproduction.

You make a good point. I personally think that people who argue that "your gender is in your genes" are people who are living in extreme doubt of their own gender identity.

I agree with the goal post moving regarding chromosomes. Those same people could have definitive, insurmountable proof and they would stick their fingers in their ears, close their eyes tight, and yell loudly. Those people are morons...and will never be accepting.

I learned English grammar back when only straight binary people existed (or at least that was what was pretended) and the rule I was taught was that they/them was only 'correct' if the number involved was uncertain, but if you knew it was only a single then use the single gendered pronoun if known, or he/him if not... I try to be respectful of what others wish, but old habits are hard to break... Now I try to dodge the issue by avoiding the use of pronouns entirely, which poses it's own challenges...

I'm glad we have more openness these days, but I will admit things were simpler seeming when gender didn't have so many letters... (I am reminded of the Unix joke about gender getting to have more option flags than 'ls'.... Of course Unix is sexist in some ways, like the standard way of learning about a command (ask the man...) )

WheelyCurious

stephaniesteve1 (imported) wrote: Sun Jun 03, 2018 3:07 am Most of the time I am dressed and look like a normal male. Given the chance I will always say i am a eunuch, as I am very proud of being one.

I am exactly the same way. Actually, I would make an awfully unattractive female anyway.

I had an orchiectomy thirty years ago.

At first I questioned my gender.

I took testosterone on and off for a while but decided that I didn’t like the way it made me feel.

In the past my penis made bad decisions for me.

I identify as a male.

I no longer take testosterone. I take low dose estrogen to help protect my body.

Personally I am a modern day Eunuch.

i am a man and will continue to be one even with out my cock! that is a fact of my chromosomes i cannot change. the feelings and the emotions do nothing but further assert that indeed i am a man. If any of think that all men don't have things that are repressed that they struggle with then we are only fooling ourselves.

My biggest complaint in my life is that it wasn't ever made clear that it is a good thing to be a man not better then anything else but good in its own right. all this bitch love with the me to movement and feminism is a tragic and destructive operation by a bunch of bitches to hollow out men and make it possible to suck the life and productive nature out of him. its just one more self proclamation by feminists that woman aren't enough on their own they have to treat men like shit to elevate themselves to a higher level. So yes i am a MAN and it doesn't matter what the fuck i do to me i will always be one!

First, to answer the primary question, I am a man who is castrated with dead testicles and impotent due to prostate cancer, and consider myself a eunuch. Because of my age, I can only present as male, not something in between. At a much younger age, I wondered what it would be like to be a woman with nothing between my legs, still do. It looks like I may get my wish. Legally I wish to remain male, i.e., on my driver's license, which has an 'other' box. Medically, I will claim 'other'; they ask for birth sex anyway. It does me no good to lie to doctors. I married my second wife, with her knowing my situation. I do want to get off T therapy and start E. If it means boobs, I'll deal with it. I am still male and a Mr./he/him. I started reading a SiFi novel, and it had them/they for an individual, which really confused me. I guess time just passed me by. My editor, who is my age, changed some of my pronouns and gently informed me it was necessary for my target age group. What a shock. I didn't even know what cis- meant. Right now, to me, there are males, females, and 'other.' A male to female is female and vice versa. Even if I develop boobs, I will be using the boy's restroom.

Hardball (imported) wrote: Mon May 22, 2023 10:13 am I started reading a SiFi novel, and it had them/they for an individual, which really confused me. I guess time just passed me by. My editor, who is my age, changed some of my pronouns and gently informed me it was necessary for my target age group. What a shock. I didn't even know what cis- meant. Right now, to me, there are males, females, and 'other.' A male to female is female and vice versa. Even if I develop boobs, I will be using the boy's restroom.

I agree - when I learned English grammar, they / them was for multiple persons or unknown number, and I still think of it that way by default... When I encounter someone using they / them I wonder if I'm dealing w/ a case of Multiple Personality Disorder ... It puts what I call a 'mental speed bump' in the process... I'm sympathetic with the idea of not wanting to do the binary male / female pronoun thing, but I just wish that folks would use one of the many other options for it, instead of hijacking and confusing an existing usage...

WheelyCurious