rikerscage (imported) wrote: Tue Dec 15, 2015 4:25 am Fredyede, its only my opinion, but you noticed changes in your testicles after one month. Why did you inject again, it takes 3 months to reach maximum results. I am glad to hear it didn't hurt for as long. I agree that the finer needles take longer to inject with.

Update. For me its been 2 months since my one and only injection. My wife commented that "your arms look like a girl, you need to start lifting weights again". She also has commented on my skin feeling soft and wondered which of her products I've been using. Last I feel my pants tighter around my thighs, and my chest jiggles when I run. My weight has come down 5 lbs. My testicles are very small now. My wife notices this too. She chocked it up to me being cold, which I wasn't, I had just come from a hot shower. I think that the injection worked well for me, I also believe that the puerira mirifica has helped with the female fat redistribution.

In my impatience I did this for the second time. Actually I did not notice any significant shrinkage. although they was some hard and lumpy, The size seemed the same as before, Probably I should have waited more time to see full results. I´m glad for you and your progress!.This stuff does work, I have confirmed this by myself indirectly. I have reduced drastically my antiandrogens dosages and I have noticed no changes . Before, any reduction in my antiandrogens meant an inevitable rising of T symptoms but This time It was not that way. My buds are now more prominent and It´s giving me the impression that hormones are working more efficiently.

stephaniesteve1 (imported) wrote: Tue Dec 15, 2015 6:04 am Another success for caCl.

Just ha

nvrgag44 (imported) wrote: Tue Dec 15, 2015 6:04 am 26270440]
d an appointment with the urologist.

Its exactly 4 months from the first shot and 2 months from a precautionary second.Had a hard time convincing the docs to do a proper job and remve both testes. Ent through , remove lumps, remove one before finally agreeing to remove both under
[/quote]
local .

Will get a date mid Jan!

Will keep you posted

I´m really glad for you

I´m not sure yet If It´s time to present "my case" to the doctor.

Nice technical roundup

I have a thought about all this.

The greatest danger appears to be leakage of the CaCl2 solution into the scrotum as this can cause painful sores and could cause some skin to slough off.

So what if one were to do the CaCl2 injection and then immediately inject a volume of fluid into the scrotum? Perhaps normal saline.

(or maybe put a few ounces in before injecting CaCl2, just in case? but not so much as to make the testis hard to hold)

If the CaCl2 leaked into the scrotum but was enormously diluted by the injected fluid perhaps it would not be all that irritating to the inner scrotal skin?

Injecting a few ounces of fluid into the scrotum might dilute any spilled CaCl2. Maybe put in a few ounces and then gently knead the scrotum to slosh the

fluid over all internal surfaces.

It seems this would also be a very humane thing to do for the dogs that are injected with CaCl2. I mean even a dog deserves a little TLC for his scrotum

The Vet could keep a 'rescue' syringe at hand in case there was an accidental injection of CaCl2 in the scrotum... the fluid could be quickly injected and

the scrotum massaged to help dilute the CaCl2. Perhaps the injected solution could contain a substance to help normalize the Ph of the CaCl2 as well.

CaCl2 is very harsh on moist tissue, if one were to put a 1ml sample of 20% CaCl2 solution with ethyl alcohol in a cup and then add a few ounces of normal

saline to it and mix it around they would have a sample of what might remain in the scrotum if you accidentally injected the ENTIRE syringe full of CaCl2 20%

solution into the scrotum. The resulting diluted solution could be tested to see if it would in any way be irritating to moist tissue. If it proved safe then it

would seem that having the normal saline in the scrotum might protect against a small leakage during injection....?

I'm no expert and I'm not advocating anything here...just trying to think of a way to minimize what seems to be the most likely adverse reaction to CaCl2 injection.

The fact that if a tiny bit of CaCl2 is leaked into the scrotum while doing these injections might cause parts of the scrotum to slough off would tend to make a guy

very nervous and more likely to make a mistake. If the idea of having a diluting solution in the scrotum could protect against this could be tested it would make the

whole exercise less nerve wracking.

Frida G Cavic (imported) wrote: Tue Dec 15, 2015 8:04 am

stephaniesteve1 (imported) wrote: Tue Dec 15, 2015 6:04 am Had a hard time convincin

g the docs to do a proper job and remve both testes.

It might be helpful to be aware of Contrast Principle, which we all experience - Doctors are human and experience it too (e.g. http://changingminds.org/principles/contrast.htm)

If you have two testicles with problems, but one is significantly worse, the Contrast Principle says a Doctor may want to remove only the WORSE one, simply because the other problematic testicle is less-bad. If you just had one testicle that was problematic - the less-bad one, they would possibly want to remove that. Also because it was worse than the healthy one? Make sense?

Reading this thread and the alcohol thread, it seems that's how doctors are behaving.

So you can possibly counter any contrast bias by making them think about the less-bad testis on its own... e.g. "wait a minute - you're saying BOTH testes are unhealthy, but you just want to remove ONE? - If I came to you just with the less-bad one, what would you do? Are you okay with leaving it because it's less bad? Can you guarantee me it's not going to cause problems?"

transhaman (imported) wrote: Tue Dec 15, 2015 8:10 pm Nice technical roundup

I have a thought about all this.

The greatest danger appears to be leakage of the CaCl2 solution into the scrotum as this can cause painful sores and could cause some skin to slough off.

So what if one were to do the CaCl2 injection and then immediately inject a volume of fluid into the scrotum? Perhaps normal saline.

(or maybe put a few ounces in before injecting CaCl2, just in case? but not so much as to make the testis hard to hold)

I think that Injecting an extra fluid of anything only will increase the chances of irritation and is no guarantee of protection against cacl2 leakeage Nothing should be into the scrotal tissue at the minimum and less an hypertonic substance as might be saline solution.

SamKelley (imported) wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2015 6:43 am It might be helpful to be aware of Contrast Principle, which we all experience - Doctors are human and experience it too (e.g. http://changingminds.org/principles/contrast.htm)

If you have two testicles with problems, but one is significantly worse, the Contrast Principle says a Doctor may want to remove only the WORSE one, simply because the other problematic testicle is less-bad. If you just had one testicle that was problematic - the less-bad one, they would possibly want to remove that. Also because it was worse than the healthy one? Make sense?

Reading this thread and the alcohol thread, it seems that's how doctors are behaving.

So you can possibly counter any contrast bias by making them think about the less-bad testis on its own... e.g. "wait a minute - you're saying BOTH testes are unhealthy, but you just want to remove ONE? - If I came to you just with the less-bad one, what would you do? Are you okay with leaving it because it's less bad? Can you guarantee me it's not going to cause problems?"

That is the debate I had with the doc a few days ago. Their drive is to save the testicle, ous is to remove them ,you have to argue through that barrier .

stephaniesteve1 (imported) wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2015 10:28 am That is the debate I had with the doc a few days ago. Their drive is to save the testicle, ous is to remove them ,you have to argue through that barrier .

Yes, I've found doctors respond well to a well reasoned argument. It's also taken me a while to find a doctor I really trust (skill, experience, actually cares), AND who is willing to work with me and have proper conversations. He's amazing.

Day 11 - My testicles are a bit lumpy! After several days of no pain they're now aching (referred inguinal pain not even a 1 out of 10 but enough to remind me they're there). The right testis has lost its squishiness and has become hard. So something's going on down there. I'm graphing testicular volume but I don't seem to be able to post images on here. Left started 20.4 cc and is now 16.3 cc. Right was 20.8 and is now 18.7.

Where are my pathology results??? I'll have to chase them up...

My libido has atually increased ??? Could this be increased pituitary T to compensate for reduced testicular T? I've had no problems with erections or orgasms. Other than that I feel very level and happy, however it's hard to tell WHAT that is because I'm on SSRI's also - so I always feel level and happy .

SamKelley (imported) wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2015 5:18 pm My libido has atually increased ??? Could this be increased pituitary T to compensate for reduced testicular T? I've had no problems with erections or orgasms. Other than that I feel very level and happy, however it's hard to tell WHAT that is because I'm on SSRI's also - so I always feel level and happy .

I experienced a weird rise of my libido on the third day after the first injection . I think that It´s due to a pituitary reaction compensating a sudden lost of testicular T too. However After a week my libido come down to nothing.

I´ve forgot to post my update: Day 5 for the second injection huges testicles and I´ve felt a sharp pulsating pain in my right. Yesterday and today I decided return to my daily walking, which was a mistake since after finish, the pain increased in both. The rise of the body heat and the movement in the sac worsened the swelling. After taking a shower I feel much better. I ´ll have to wait several days before excercising again

SamKelley (imported) wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2015 5:18 pm Yes, I've found doctors respond well to a well reasoned argument. It's also taken me a while to find a doctor I really trust (skill, experience, actually cares), AND who is willing to work with me and have proper conversations. He's amazing.

Day 11 - My testicles are a bit lumpy! After several days of no pain they're now aching (referred inguinal pain not even a 1 out of 10 but enough to remind me they're there). The right testis has lost its squishiness and has become hard. So something's going on down there. I'm graphing testicular volume but I don't seem to be able to post images on here. Left started 20.4 cc and is now 16.3 cc. Right was 20.8 and is now 18.7.

Where are my pathology results??? I'll have to chase them up...

My libido has atually increased ??? Could this be increased pituitary T to compensate for reduced testicular T? I've had no problems with erections or orgasms. Other than that I feel very level and happy, however it's hard to tell WHAT that is because I'm on SSRI's also - so I always feel level and happy .

Thank you for your insight....

How does one develop a well reasoned argument when the prevailing conventional wisdom is counter to "our" desires. I had an appointment with a new endocrinologist (new to me) because my T3 and T4 levels have been out of whack for a few months. Any suggestions on how to begin this conversation is appreciated.

tom73612 (imported) wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2015 7:12 pm How does one develop a well reasoned argument when the prevailing conventional wisdom is counter to "our" desires.

No that's not entirely true.. though doctors are governed by their own credo, the Hippocratic Oath (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocrat ... rn_version). So it may seem they have their own agenda which contradicts yours, however they're simply following the oath they've taken. I try to think about how the doctor is going to view the problem with respect to the oath, which is good because it tells me how a doctor will probably act.

I've had experiences though where I've made a counter-argument to my doctor, from the point of view of the oath - like the above argument, which re-frames the question from "should we remove the worst testicle" to "if there was only one testicle (the less bad one), would I leave that?" and we've agreed on a new course of action, as others here have experienced.

if you or someone else gives them a perspective they haven't thought of - according to the oath they must consider it, because they've sworn to use their best judgement.

You can guarantee though that a good, experienced doctor will be level-headed about your argument though: If there is a flaw in your reasoning, expect them to shoot you down - and hey, quite possibly they're right!

I've reasoned the same argument to different doctors and experienced either a) being dismissed without being listened to, b) total lack of interest, or c) cooperation and and interesting discussion for both of us. Perhaps even respect, because I was really trying to learn and understand the subject and talk in their terms and willing to be corrected.

My suggestion though if you have a doctor who either doesn't listen, you don't trust, or they seem disinterested - find another doctor you respect. You want the best doctor by your side who works in partnership for your care, don't you? Who you see is in your control to some extent, isn't it?

As for the endo conversation - first of all good luck! I can't tell you what to do, I can only tell you what I intend to do when I meet my endo next year - research hormones as much as possible so I can ask intelligent questions, and be as honest as possible about what I want - what's my end game. For me I want the best chance to blend to society as a woman. That's just me though. What do you want? ... And then I'll listen to their answer. Do they care about you? Are they listening? If not, I will look for an endocrinologist who does.