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KimiRhoze (imported) wrote: Sat Jun 11, 2011 5:48 am really can't speak for changes since I was on spiro prior to the injections, so nothing's really changed. During the injections there was somewhat of a return of T, but that didn't last.

That was about my experience when I transitioned from Siterone to injections.

I would like to summarize the information and experience that has been reported so far (over 1200 posts) regarding the use of alcohol injections. This will not include everything, but I hope it is a solid base of information.

materials

alcohol

Use only drinkable alcohol. The higher the proof the more effective it will be. The effectiveness of the proof is not linear - in other words 190 proof alcohol is a lot more than twice as effective as 95 proof alcohol. The gold standard is Everclear 190 proof (95% alcohol). Alternatives are vodka or clear rum. Drinkable alcohol is not really a medically sterile solution but it is probably the closest to it that most people can get. Keep the alcohol in the original glass bottle and treat it as if it is a sterile medicine that you don't want to contaminate with used needles or anything else.

syringes

3cc syringes with the thinnest needles you can find - 23 to 29 gauge (the larger the gauge number, the thinner the needle), 1 inch to 1.5 inch needle length. Some people like the much finer insulin needles but the insulin syringes are usually only 1cc capacity and the needle length is only 1 inch. Be sure to use a new syringe/needle for each injection.

sterile alcohol wipes

Use the individually packaged wipes

injection technique

If you do not know how to safely give an injection using an aseptic technique then you shouldn't be doing this until you learn. Talk to someone knowledgeable, read about the proper techniques and/or watch a video. You need to learn how to use an aseptic technique and learn a little about anatomy.

A new needle and syringe are sterile and should only be used once.

anatomy

google "images for epididymis anatomy". You want to destroy the leydig cells and avoid injecting into the epididymis.

pain

Pain is useful. It lets you know that something is wrong and you have been injured. That is the whole point of the alcohol injection, to gradually injure selected cells. But you don't want to injure anything other than the targeted area. So read up on anatomy again. Reported experiences with these injections ranges from minor discomfort to extreme agony. Here are some ways to minimize any pain...

needle placement

Place the needle in the right place, it might be best to enter through the base of the testicle - be sure to avoid the epididymus - some have reported that is extremely painful and possibly very injurious.

how much to inject

Start out using 1 to 2 cc. Don't force yourself to use a predetermined amount for an injection. Take your time and listen to what your body is telling you while injecting.

the injection

After wiping the injection site with an alcohol swab, let the alcohol evaporate so you don't push the surface alcohol into the nerve cells in the skin (that will hurt more).

Some people prefer a slow push of the needle through the skin, some prefer a quick jab through the skin. A quick jab will hurt less. For your first time try doing the actual injection very slowly - maybe just 0.1 to 0.2 cc at a time and then wait 15 or 30 seconds to get some feedback from your body. A very gradual injection will help avoid pain. You will eventually find the rate of injection that you are comfortable with. After you have injected one area you can withdraw the needle slightly and inject into another area, then withdraw a little more and continue injecting until you have gotten the full dose you want.

After the first few injections the pain will decrease as the nerve cells have been damaged.

frequency of injections

After each full injection you should wait at least one week before another injection. It is probably better to wait two weeks until the body has recovered and the effects of the previous injection have reached their maximum. Some people have injected again as soon as they are physically able to but that is probably too soon.

anesthetics

topical anesthetics are ok but for most people are probably unnecessary. Do not inject an anesthetic - you need to be able to feel any pain that would warn you there is a problem. Some tylenol or ibuprofin an hour before injection may help.

results

It depends on your body, proof of alcohol, amount and frequency of injection. I don't think a more frequent schedule of injections gives quicker results. Some people have reported success with less than 10 injections. Try reading the full narratives of individuals to see what might be typical experiences. (Danielle, Marcy Thomas, KimiRhoze, Caith721 and others)

Thank you everyone, Good Luck and be safe...

SmoothieSoon (imported) wrote: Sat Jun 11, 2011 10:17 am I would like to summarize the information and experience that has been reported so far (over 1200 posts) regarding the use of alcohol injections. This will not include everything, but I hope it is a solid base of information.

Thank you everyone, Good Luck and be safe...

I always pulled back on the plunger before injecting to be sure that I had not punctured a vein. I never used a syringe twice. I used Benzocaine on the surface of the scrotum to numb the injection site before injecting.

Marcy,

clysmaniac (imported) wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2011 2:12 pm One other useful tip if you read this before your biopsy. Ask your doctor if he would install a drain during your surgery. I didn't have one during my biopsy- surgical on left side, needle on right. There was some swelling and bruising for a few days- maybe a week or so afterworlds. At the end of my orchiectomy a few months later, the same doctor put another small hole in the bottom of my scrotum and put in a 1/4 inch Penrose drain (a piece of latex tubing). It was much better and there was no bruising or swelling after that surgery. It was held in by a single stitch and was removed 3 days after the surgery. I was kinky to watch how much bloody fluid did drip out- not necessarily a great amount but more than I expected. But overall comfort was much better with the drain and the small hole healed invisibly.

Hi clysmaniac,

I didn't ask him, but he had installed a drain anyway and removed it today. It looked pretty much as you described it, and a yellowish read liquid came out, maybe 1-2 tablespoons.

Hi Everyone,

I know this is long, but here are the results of my biopsy surgery. Well, I barely had gotten any sleep the night before the surgery, mainly because I was trying to finish washing dishes and was momentarily distracted. So I was sleep-deprived the whole day. I rode the bus there, and was getting picked up by my mom that evening.

As I registered and had several blood drawings before the test. I sat in a waiting room. I was sleepy and couldn't feel much anxiety of the surgery, but when about 12:10 pm came around, I looked through the doorway and a nurse with a surgery stretcher alerted me to come. That's when the reality of surgery finally hit me. I wasn't in a panic or anything, but I was quite more anxious and shaky. I also was a bit weirded-out about how the anesthesia would feel.

I was taken to a pre-surgical room and had to sign a consent for general anesthesia. I talked to Dr. Cho and discussed about my gender issue. Then I was taken into the actual surgery room and put on the operating table. The anesthesiologist talked to me for a while, and put the sedating medicine into my IV. I laid there waiting for the sedation to kick in and the anesthesiologist to give me general anasthesia. After a while, I woke up in another room. I thought I had just dozed off for a second or two and I didn't realize that the surgery had already passed until a nurse explained it to me and my mom visited me to see how I was doing. The nurses were all nice and I explained to them about my gender identity issue and gender pronouns. They all referred to me as a female.

I had to stay overnight. The nurses periodically came in and checked my vitals. I watched TV, ordered room service, and was given Vicodin every few hours for pain. The pain I experienced was about a 4-5 on a scale of 1-10, and with Vicodin only about a 1-2. Dr. Cho came in and asked if I was okay and he took a tube out of my scrotal area to drain a fluid. I was discharged today and I caught a ride with my mom this afternoon. I was prescribed Ciprofloxin for an antibiotic and told to take Ibuprofen for pain relief. Dr. Cho wants to do a followup this Wednesday and tell me the "other" results of the testicular biopsy. They did a "frozen-section", (a pathologist checked for cancer cells under a microscope in the middle of the surgery). My testicles aren't cancerous as far as they know.

Marcy

Pay attention to Smoothie- good advice.

I was lucky enough to find a guy who knew how to do it right. Be careful and slow and it works.

it seems very fitting to the purpose.

Only, i need someone to help me.

For the selective pain, i'll make a reason of that...

In any case, there are not cut without pain

:dong:

Regarding smoothiesoon summary.

This is not a suggestion or advice on what others should do, but with regard to the comment:

"

SmoothieSoon (imported) wrote: Sat Jun 11, 2011 10:17 am After you have injected one area you can withdraw the needle slightly and inject into another area, then withdraw a little more and continue injecting until you have gotten the full dose you want.

"

From personal experience I learned that it was important to not inject alcohol too close to the wall of the testicle and for the syringe to be completely emptied before I removed it from the testicle. If alcohol squirts out of testicle injection site, or dribbles out of needle after it is removed from testicle, and before being removed from scrotum, I experienced burning pain within scrotum, outside of the testicle. As long as alcohol remains contained inside the testicle only, it did hurt the first few injections, but with each successive injection the pain became an ache, and then became minimal, and then not even noticed. Thus I agree with inserting needle in as far as possible and slowly injecting fluid as the needle is withdrawn, and not just in one spot, but as mentioned don't withdraw if from testicle until all fluid is dispensed. I used less fluid in the beginning, and then increased amount with experience. Although I did not experience extreme pain, I suppose in such a case, I would have immediately stopped injecting, reversed the plunger and extracted needle, but fortunately I had no such negative experience. I am still amazed, and thankful, how effective this treatment has been. Caution and sterile techniques are paramount. Do it wrong and you will wish you may wish you had never tried doing it.

11 days after, I think it's time to infuse the boys once more. 0,5cc of 188proof in each, second time of high grade but 7th time injecting. Even if they are small, they're stills sensitive and still at work (vasectomy changed the structure). Grrr.

From what I've read, my blood test showed higher prolactin, which stimulates the testes' production. A good sign, indeed.

MaceBlack (imported) wrote: Fri Jun 10, 2011 1:04 pm i know someone somewhere in the thread has posted this all ready but i cnat find it. i tend to over look stuff alot so forgive me. what is the dose of 90% proof to be pushed into the testies if your just starting?

The max volume which can or may be injected is the same for any proof of alcohol. So using 90 proof instead of 190 proof it will take more than trice as long to gain the same results using the 90 proof. Most have reported in the neighborhood of 1cc plus or minus depending on there testicle size to start. As the injections continue the volume you can inject decreases as the testicles get smaller.

There has been reported success using 40 proof alcohol but it does take more injections.