O.B.B.,

I think that no one has any idea of just what is being done, that is not YET being posted here, on trying to made the mainstream medical community aware of the issue at hand.

As Jesus has posted already, one reason that the famed EA survey has not been published here is the fact that 99.9% of Academia-at-large won't look at something already posted - even if it is only on one community website like this one.

Work is being done, and we have two Archive members busting their proverbial nuts to get something done about the problem of voluntary - or even necessary - castration without physical, medical urgency involved. They are doing work for exposure of the problems that none of the rest of us can do. Most of us don't have the contacts, nor the credentials, to be listened to - even if we could find someone to talk to.

I've seen the material recently presented to a lot of of the bigwigs in "the establishment", per say, about sexual studies. And it was an impressive thing. There were even signs that some of them were paying attention! Imagine that.

As for this website offering readers choices, at this point in time, what is there to do from a legal and even ethical standpoint? And from what members have posted lately, it seems that even Dr. Kimmel is beginning to fall into the 'iffy' category of being an ethical suggestion.

Reading H.D.'s account of his recent trip to Kimmel seriously worries me. And the whole incident of Rick and his family shows what happens when you move into the realm of "non-MD" surgery.

So, what is one to do at this point in time?

Risk a "cutter"?

Risk Kimmel, with all current accounts taken into consideration?

Risk a DIY job on the hospital lawn and dash into the ER for harassment?

Dress up as Star Wars characters and storm the Whitehouse?

If anyone's got a better idea or a sensible doctor on hand, please trot it out for us to review.

In the meantime, well...? I for one am open to rational suggestions.

OneBallBoi (imported) wrote: Sun Nov 26, 2006 7:22 am I think it is very funny that this website so faithfully supports Dr. Kimmel and advertises his name as the only way to go while we see testimony after testimony that his facility is filty, that he uses unsterile instruments and that he does not check up on patients for after care. I think it can easily be said that this website gives it's viewers no choices at all for castration. It is just a subject out of question or something to get a big laugh over. Get with it administration and encourage some real legal and ethical doctors to recommend or just make castration a laughing point and not encourage anyone to pursue it. You have two choices.

Actually, we have other choices. Folks always have the option of doing whatever they wish, regardless of what anyone here says or doesn't. I don't know Kimmel or how he works or his conditions, save for what is reported here. Let folks be influenced by what they read or observe. Officially, we do not endorse anyone. We advocate the use of Medically Qualified people. At this point such folks are a rarity - the only one I am aware of is Kimmel, and several folks question the state of his current qualifications. If you want other options (i.e., other physicians) GO RECRUIT THEM and let us know who they are.

We do NOT advocate, endorse, or support the use of anyone other than qualified medical personnel to perform castrations. People do, however, often choose to go to cutters - that is their choice, and that is nothing that we can or should or would do anything about. We will not permit anyone, ever, to post here advertising as, for, or advocating for anyone who is a cutter.

When you are able to ensure that this site is not subject to any legal ramifications as a result of any advocacy of illegal activities, or similarly to guarantee there are no consequences or liabilities to anyone operating, moderating, or administering this site, then you will have a right to bitch and complain. Until then, save it, because I do not want to hear it ad infinitum.

Re-Active thinking is when you sit back and wait for a Urologist to key the word "castration" into the search engine and then search through endless to find Eunuch Archive. Re-active thinking will not work. Pro-active thinking is when Professionally Qualified Eunuch Archive Administrators are willing to go talk to Urologists and demostrate to them that there is a real need and encourage them to fill that need. As I look at things, until such a time as Eunuch Archive can deliver pro-active thinking and bring results, they are delivering false hope to it's readers of ever obtaining safe legal castration. Thus the administrators are making castration a mockery and a joke. There is no hope. People just have to accept that.

OK, there, OBB, what are YOU doing then, besides throwing stones?

You think that no one here is trying to bring the whole issue of voluntary castration to the attention of the medical community?

You are mistaken, buddy.

And saying things like this:

"

OneBallBoi (imported) wrote: Sun Nov 26, 2006 9:57 am Thus the administrators are making castration a mockery and a joke.

" that only make things worse.

But as you say, this is how YOU look at things.

Were we all looking at it that way, then yeah, there would be no hope.

Let me start by saying that one goal that I have is to run Dr. Murray Kimmel out of business by encouraging 50 or 60 younger and better trained urologists to be ready to provide castrations. We need to have many others ready to help those who are willing to spend a bit of time and money to be properly diagnosed as Male-to-Eunuch (MtE), or as having Body Integrity Identity Disorder (BIID) such that the only established cure is removal of the testicles (and, rarely, also the penis).

We are fighting against over a hundred years of medical and psychiatric literature saying that only someone who is suffering severe psychosis would want his genitals removed.

The earliest article that I have found in the modern medical literrature is “Self-Castration” by Daniel Stroch, M.D. (Journal of the American Medical Association, 1901, p. 270). Stroch describes a 27 year-old suffering schizophrenia and acute depression. In the hundred years since, there have been a number of articles discussing self-castration and/or the desire for casration published in the world-wide medical literature. Some of the titles are clearly descriptive of what we are up against as we try to move the medical profession: “Genital Self-Mutilation in Acute Mania” (by S.Lennon. The Medical Journal of Australia, 1963, pp. 79-81); “Autocastration as a Presenting Sign of Incipient Schzophrenia” (by W.C.Myers & M.Nguyen, Psychiatric Services, 2001, pp. 685-86); “Autocastration and Biblical Delusions in Schizophrenia” (by A.C.Waugh, British Journal of Psychiatry, 1986, pp. 656-58); “Genitial Self-Mutilation in Males: Psychodynamic Anatomy of a Psychosis” (by R.Z.Fisch, American Journal of Psychotherapy, 1987, pp. 453-59); etc. There are even entire books on the subject, such as Introduction a la Psychopathologie Collective, by Ionel Rapaport (Paris: Edition Erka, 1948, 266 pages). The list goes on….

The review articles attempting to summarize the literature are no better in content, though their titles may be more neutral: “Male Genital Self-Mutliation” (by H.Greilsheimer & J.E.Groves, Archives of General Psychiatry, 1979, pp. 441-46); “Genital Self-Mutilation” (by S.Aboseif, R.Gomez & J.W.McAninch, Journal of Urology, 1993, pp. 1143-46) and “On Background Factors of Male Genital Self-Mutilation (by M.Nakaya, Psychopathology, 1996, pp. 242-48). Greilsheimer & Groves list only four of the many cases they have found in a survey of the medical literature as NOT psychotic, and three of those were MtF transsexuals. Abosef, et al. clearly state in their second sentence, “Of the patients 65% were psychotic….” Nakaya raises the figure, stating that 77% were overtly psychotic.

Desire for castration is seen as needing treatment, but that treatment does not include castration. Suggestions include “Skoptic Syndrome: The Treatment of an Obsessional Gender Dysphoria with Lithium Carbonate and Psychotherapy (by E.Coleman & J.Cesnik, American Journal of Psychotherapy, 1990, pp. 204-17). Put them in a psychiatric hospital and drug them into a vegetative state!

There is a tiny bit of literature on the other side, such as “A Case of Non-Psychotic Autocastration: The Importance of Cultural Factors” (by N.F.Premand & A.Eytan, Psychicatry, 2005, pp. 174-78), but they are quite rare.

Anyone who carefully reads the posts here on the Eunuch Archive knows that most of those who post are sane and rational beings.

Mostly off-stage and out of sight, there are efforts underway to change the perceptions of the medical and psychiatric communities. Some progress has been made and we expect to see some much more positive literature in the near future. One early article to see print is “The Right to Be Hurt: Testing the Boundaries of Consent”, (by V.Bergelson, George Washington Law Review, 2006, in press). Bergelson argues for the right of those with BIID to have the offending part removed. Articles on MtE have been submitted and references will be posted here once they are in print.

There are already a few surgeons who are willing to help, though they are very reluctant to advertise their services. A conscientious effort should find one somewhere near you.

It takes a lot of time and effort to move a hundred years of dead weight of literature and opinion. We are working on it.

I think that there are doctors out there that are willing to help. I found one in Dr. Alter. I asked him if he would be willing to help others and he said he would, but he did say he needs to know the person is sane. The reason guys go with Kimmel is because he is easy and relatively cheep. Remember the old saying, " you get what you pay for". I assume you have all read my story and see that the right way is doable. It wasn't all that difficult, but it took a little time and it did cost more. I think what I spent was well worth the peace of mind. I suggest that guys seek out the help of therapists that deal with gender disorders. I saw three such therapists and they were all very helpful. I couldn't have done it with out them. It all starts with a phone call. You don't have to be shy, they can't see who they are talking to. Once you find the right therapist, you will be surprised how easy it is to talk to them. Many of these therapists also know of surgeons that do castrations. It's too bad my wife doesn't really care for this whole subject as she was a real bull dog in finding the right people to help me. She could start a business getting things setup for you guys. I did find Dr. Alter on a transgender site though. Steve

Hairless, You said you breath better, it has been suggested that I have that surgery as well. On snoring, did your doctors ever suggest a C-pap machine to help you sleep? I have had one now for the last couple years and havent slept this well in years.

On Kimmel, I think thefraj and I were the first of this group to go to him and that was 4 years ago. I did not find anything wrong at that time but he is in his late 60s. He is still the only name out there that we know about. There have been a few in the past that have used other doctors but the doctor did not want there name given out. Anyway, my experience with Dr Kimmel was a good one, on the flip side I see the recent posts on him saying different. I dont think its fare to call him a quack as has been posted, but most likely just getting to old to do this anymore. I wish him well and hope he enjoys golf.

Cost, it should not cost an arm and a leg to get castrated. I think its great that work is being done to bring new younger doctors into the group but we also need to work out a fare price. It is much more difficult to castrated a human then an animal, but charging several thousand dollars will not be the answer. It must be affordable or cutters will be doing a big business.

So I see several problems here.

1. Get Dr. Kimmel into retirement.

2. Be accepted as a group that requires castration for our own wellbeing.

3. Bring on new younger doctors that will do castrations.

4. Set a price range so that we can afford the castrations these new doctors will perform.

5. Change the mind set of the Phic. Doctors as there really in the dark ages on this subject, I know I have one, a real jerk, or had one I am getting a new doctor and I am going to get him straight on this subject right off the top.

These are a lot of goals to reach and they cant be done by one person. We all need to do what we can to help these changes happen.

Final thought,

I know for me, even with all the medical problems I have had sense, I would not change one thing. The last four years as a eunuch have been the best in my whole life. I am finally complete.

River

River,could you elaborate on the medical problems you refer to since surgery?

I had to get back on hrt due to becoming lethargic and weight gain.(twin)

One should give Dr Kimmel more credit and give him HONORS as well, because he has made himself available to the Eunuchs-to-be while no-one else dared to do it. Picking on him for flor and house cleaning is not fair. As long as the customer survives the surgery... Give him PRAISE - I say./n3rf

Paolo wrote: Sun Nov 26, 2006 8:16 am O.B.B.,

I think that no one has any idea of just what is being done, that is not YET being posted here, on trying to made the mainstream medical community aware of the issue at hand.

As Jesus has posted already, one reason that the famed EA survey has not been published here is the fact that 99.9% of Academia-at-large won't look at something already posted - even if it is only on one community website like this one.

Work is being done, and we have two Archive members busting their proverbial nuts to get something done about the problem of voluntary - or even necessary - castration without physical, medical urgency involved. They are doing work for exposure of the problems that none of the rest of us can do. Most of us don't have the contacts, nor the credentials, to be listened to - even if we could find someone to talk to.

I've seen the material recently presented to a lot of of the bigwigs in "the establishment", per say, about sexual studies. And it was an impressive thing. There were even signs that some of them were paying attention! Imagine that.

As for this website offering readers choices, at this point in time, what is there to do from a legal and even ethical standpoint? And from what members have posted lately, it seems that even Dr. Kimmel is beginning to fall into the 'iffy' category of being an ethical suggestion.

Reading H.D.'s account of his recent trip to Kimmel seriously worries me. And the whole incident of Rick and his family shows what happens when you move into the realm of "non-MD" surgery.

So, what is one to do at this point in time?

Risk a "cutter"?

Risk Kimmel, with all current accounts taken into consideration?

Risk a DIY job on the hospital lawn and dash into the ER for harassment?

Dress up as Star Wars characters and storm the Whitehouse?

If anyone's got a better idea or a sensible doctor on hand, please trot it out for us to review.

In the meantime, well...? I for one am open to rational suggestions.

Marci Bowers in Colorado, Dr Reed in Florida, Dr ummm... Gilbert? not sure where. Dr Alter in California. All require "some" info / reason. I think most want a mental health screening so they won't be sued for sterilizing mental cases. Also probably a letter from your MD.

I think a large part of this is a "reason" for this procedure. Is is

1) Fetish? *Good luck. Any my personal opinion is Yeek! Get a different hobby.

2) Cosmetic? If your "set" is atrophed and already non functional this is a perfectly good reason to remove them according to several doctors that I've read about etc.

3) For pain? If you have pain issues you may have difficulty arguing your doctor out of removal. I know of several folks on this archive that are debating this with their urologists.

4) A step is sex reassignment? I don't know if its "mainstream" yet but I think its a lot closer and less "weird" then even a few years ago. You need some history and letters from therapy folks from what I've read. In my opinion it makes sense for cost issues and to avoid health risks with long term use of anti androgens. *Some of which are not FDA approved for example.

5) Sex Drive issues. I am very surprised how many doctors are "ok" with some form of "castration" be it Depo Provera or whatever to make peoples lives better. I spoke to Don who had a sex drive that was incompatable with his wife's lack of one. His MD was quite happy to help him stay castrated "correctly" on depo. So is surgical THAT different? All I can say is this is not for me but... As Don said people are different. Our solution might not work for you...