Due to requests, chemical castration protocal with optional levels of feminizing

[Tclosetgirl (imported)]

2mg in the AM 2mg in the PM

For me it was a heavy dose.

[DonFL (imported)]

the reason for Progynon Depot for estrogen is to make it much easier on the liver and significantly lower risks. Oral E is the method hard on the body. Several SRS doctors will even push the body to a "pregnancy" level of E in order to feminize as rapidly as possible, but i think that is too hard on the mind. The oral addition to the protocol is to smooth out the up and down of injected E but depending on dosage of injected, its not really needed.

[Tclosetgirl (imported)]

the reason for Progynon Depot for estrogen

I don't understand this - is this the patch that you refer to?

Thanks,

[DonFL (imported)]

Progynon Depot is IM injectable estrogen, it has minimal hepatic and renal impairment, less than 10% of oral. Someone can be brought to pubertal or pregnancy estrogen levels more or less safely with it as long as they have a good liver and kidneys. Pretesting labs are always HIGHLY recommended...

[plix (imported)]

Progynon Depot is IM injectable estrogen, it has minimal hepatic and renal impairment, less than 10% of oral. Someone can be brought to pubertal or pregnancy estrogen levels more or less safely with it as long as they have a good liver and kidneys. Pretesting labs are always HIGHLY recommended...

Sounds pretty similar to Delestrogen. The thing I don't like about injections is the fact that they produce very unstable levels. I like to keep things a lot more stable, and oral is the cheapest option for stability. Taking oral under the tongue rather than swallowing and using only 17-beta estradiol cuts down drastically on the risks. Also, injections made my prolactin shoot through the roof - that can be a very dangerous thing.

[Tclosetgirl (imported)]

I did the sublinqual, and while you do swallow your saliva, it seemed to work better - more potent. I went DOWN from 4mg to 2mg per day when doing this.

I am on black cohosh and Saw Palmetto right now, 7 days and my breasts re-inflated to my HRT level - FULL A cup right now.

Should be interesting, T levels are down where i like them without being un-usable

Saw Palmetto seems to work fast in me, also seems to wear off as fast, 7-10 days give or take.

The cohosh combination may or may not have much to do with it, I put 5lbs back on and I swear 2 of them went to my breasts.

We shall see...

[DonFL (imported)]

unfortunately the vast majority are not sensitive enough to estrogen for plant estrogens to be effictive in most males.

Estradiol Valerate, or Progynon Depot, has a half life of 6-8 days, similar to testosterone-cyp. If it can be tolerated, weekly injections are becoming recommended to keep swing minimum, dosage should be tailored to the patients tolerance. I have a deep distrust of any oral estrogen because i have seen first hand a liver destroyed by them in one of my classes, so that may have biased and influenced my treatment prefrences. Orals also cause upto a 3 fold increase in clotting factors found in the blood, espicaly Premarin.

A commonly held theory is that the body has a finite amount of estrogen receptors, which can become overloaded with any one type of estrogen resulting in no further development. Often it is of value to alter the regime by changing estrogens to prevent receptor overload.

Prostate cancer patients who elect estrogen based suppression are normally dosed with 40-70mg of Estradiol Valerate bi-weekly, and i ha vent found any papers yet that have indicated any severe secondary health effects from it. Since Lupron Depot, however, this form of suppression is dropping in popularity and we may not see much more research on the subject.

[plix (imported)]

unfortunately the vast majority are not sensitive enough to estrogen for plant estrogens to be effictive in most males.

Estradiol Valerate, or Progynon Depot, has a half life of 6-8 days, similar to testosterone-cyp. If it can be tolerated, weekly injections are becoming recommended to keep swing minimum, dosage should be tailored to the patients tolerance. I have a deep distrust of any oral estrogen because i have seen first hand a liver destroyed by them in one of my classes, so that may have biased and influenced my treatment prefrences. Orals also cause upto a 3 fold increase in clotting factors found in the blood, espicaly Premarin.

A commonly held theory is that the body has a finite amount of estrogen receptors, which can become overloaded with any one type of estrogen resulting in no further development. Often it is of value to alter the regime by changing estrogens to prevent receptor overload.

Prostate cancer patients who elect estrogen based suppression are normally dosed with 40-70mg of Estradiol Valerate bi-weekly, and i ha vent found any papers yet that have indicated any severe secondary health effects from it. Since Lupron Depot, however, this form of suppression is dropping in popularity and we may not see much more research on the subject.

In the United States, Estradiol Valerate is sold under the name Delestrogen. Weekly injections are much more stable than bi-weekly, but will still be quite unstable compared to a daily delivery method. Some cannot mentally handle any fluctuations in levels.

I'd be very interested in hearing about cases of liver damage that meet the following conditions:

- 17-beta estradiol (not valerate, premarin, or ethynil estradiol) is what was used and is the only factor that caused the damage

- The doses taken were within the "normal" range of what is commonly accepted for feminization (up to 8 mg daily)

- The pills were dissolved under the tongue, not swallowed (I'd also accept cases where the pills were swallowed so long as the other three criteria are met)

- There was no pre-existing hepatic impairment

I am sure there are cases out there that meet these criteria, I just have not come across them yet (but would love to for my own research).

I have heard the receptor overload theory, and while it has not been proven, it does make sense. But in my case I am not so interested in feminization as I am in maintaining health and the mental effects of estrogen, so I am not too concerned about it.

I suppose one could argue that during the normal female puberty levels vary widely every month, and that it is likely that these are the conditions under which feminization is meant to take place. However, you have to balance that out against how much variation in levels you can handle. Some people are extremely susceptible to variation, while others do not notice it at all.

Keep in mind there are other methods that are available for estrogen use, such as patches and gels. Both of these are considered as safe if not more so than injections.

[DonFL (imported)]

yes! gels and patches are extremely safe, just more expensive!

I got to check my old notebooks for the exact parameters around the liver case we examined, but i believe it was from a trans-woman who was ingesting 12mg estrogen orally, not sublingualy. Im starting to see how my education caused treatment bias, and not all size fits all!

[ramses (imported)]

Oxytocin is what triggers the let down as well as labor. It's recently been found to be essential to mens sexual health.

thanks plix, i have heard from doctors who recommend anywhere between 20 to 70mg of depot estrogen, 40mg creates a "late-puberty" level of estrogen which causes more rapid feminizing. The dosages of corse should be tailored to the persons tolerance and needs.

Prolactin raising is something that was discussed in some of my classes, ive also read a few protocols that this was used in. Prolactin, of coarse, causes tissue growth in preparation of lactation, and then starts it. Unless one is pumping it wont let down and start production at significant levels.

There are about as many protocols as there are doctors, this more or less is an average of what i have witnessed.

Humm... I might add my current regimen im going under, Eunuch 2 Male.. lol..