MrT, I don't think your views are unpopular or unwelcome. You give good info and you remain an outstanding voice for caution and reason. Due to the serious potential side effects of self medicating, extream caution is warranted. Thanks for you contributions here, MrT.

Hi MrT,

What you say is definitely true....But please consider:

1. Its only true when the objective or result is less libido than your wife. While this is certainly tempting....to put the shoe on the other foot for the first time in 15 years...it is not my objective. I acknowledge what you say that this would be detrimental to a spouse..that is not what I want

2. The depression and anger resulting from being told no all the time is less than the depression of loosing some of ones libido.

To be honest the anger and frustration that I have expressed to my wife over the years have been more destructive in a lot of ways...and one of the reasons i have ended up hating my libido...I have been down the path of seeking sex elsewhere...I even dislocated my shoulder in a fit of rage once....out of eyeshot from my wife i went down stairs and beat the shit out of a bed because she said no once.....while I did a good job of hiding the anger from her...once I had dislocated my shoulder I had to fes up because I was in so much pain...lol took my arm a whole year to recover, but how long did it take my wife?

Incidentally one of the reasons I decided to cage concurrently with starting with androcur is because of the temptation to see if it still works...which of course would not help the intellectual addiction to orgasm....just think of how long it takes to get over smoking...it only takes 3-4 days for your body to be free of nicotine..bit it takes a lot longer than that to stop thinking about and wanting to smoke.

So there might be 2 parts to libido reduction....the hormone level and orgasm addiction??

Interestingly this morning after my first day of drop down in dosage woke feeling much better....and a little firmon...not enough to wake me...see how it goes for a few days..

A quick chime-in here:

I'm hiding what I do from my wife because she is the kind of person she is. The fact that most men that I read about here share some or all information with their spouses are probably doing so for much the same reason: they know who their spouses are and how they would handle this sort of decision.

I'll dodge the question of right vs wrong on this particular issue because frankly I just don't think our society/culture prepared us properly to know how to deal with issues of this kind. I was told, "save sex for when you are married." Unfortunately, I was never told, "you might one day end up with a wife incapable of enjoying sex." Lo and behold, I've had 2 like that. Just my bloody luck!

Now, if I were asked by someone what I thought they should do if they were in my shoes, I believe the first opinion I would give would be MrT's advice: Share this with your wife. There would need to be a very conscious, personal, heavily weighed decision to NOT share this with your wife and I suspect that decision would come from the pondering of how to tell a spouse. Ultimately, mine did.

A thought, too, on Cogman's 2-part theory to libido reduction: it sound's plausible to me, but I'm not used to thinking of it in that way. I have begun to think about it more and more, and I realized at some point in time that I had not separated "sex drive" and "intimacy" before. While my sex drive is now lowered to a point of mostly off, I discovered that I still craved intimacy with my wife. To have a meaningful conversation, to share some time on the porch swing, or just to be held,... in the past all of those activities could have been perceived to be preludes to sex so my wife has learned to avoid them like the plague. Now I have to go back and reprogram her to see that she can be safe with me while enjoying some of these simple pleasures.

You guys are being great and I appreciate being able to inject my point of view. I do understand that its difficult for me to walk a mile in your shoes. I have circumstances that you don't and so on.

One thing I had problems with when I was low on hormones was that I was the one avoiding intimacy. I was "crowded the edge of the bed" hoping she would get the hint and leave me alone and so forth. We went through a variety of serious issues and of course sex was not "Everything" but it was amazing how many issues that were making her crazy at me went away on the once in a blue moon that I was "talked into" having sex with her.

I had more then just hormone issues to deal with and I thought that impotence might be "why" I was the way I was. *It probably didn't help. When I started trying to find a safe way to deal with that (I dabbled with an internet Levitra tablet) I found some help from a mostly female support group.

This is all very general and no, I'm not a doctor or Mr Science but I found that Women don't feel good about expressing a desire for sex. I also learned that a lot of women didn't even have an enjoyable sex life. I was astonished how many didn't have regular orgasms etc. For example I suggested to one that she could do Oral sex with him (impotent or not) and they would both have SOME kind of orgasm together. She said that he never did this for her. And I had to sit back and pinch myself. How uptight was this couple? Maybe they were my parents age? Nope... Just repressed I guess. And she was one of many.

What drives men (Testosterone) is available in women at about 10% strength. I know there is more to female sex drive then Testosterone but I "think" part of why we are often the ones to initiate is due to this. That said there are a LOT of very horny, angry women who feel that the man with a sex problem is a dirty SOB and they STILL won't confront them. Others want a sex life that will make them happy but live with a crappy one where the man gets off and they lay there wondering why anyone would do this. And again they STILL don't confront them.

"IF" you were to work on communications and were able to tell your wives that your so upset with things that your "castrating" yourself with drugs to dull the pain I think this might open up communications. Perhaps the problem would be better resolved by open a little loving communications followed by a visit to a doctor who does sex therapy?

If the choice was a mutually satisfying sex life or castration of some type?

Which would make both of you happier? If the answer is both of you would prefer castration then? Well I guess thats your biz. But you do have to both agree. Or don't you agree? Yes, its your individual choice. But its made without her consent. Or even knowledge. And theres the rub. Yes, this is your body but part (I think) of what most of us expect from a marriage is a sex life (Baring illness, accident etc) And even in those cases there are wheelchair bound people with sex lives and so on.

And if (as in my case) you get moody, angry, depressed and so forth is that really fair?

Hi MrT,

No probs, I think part of not telling the mrs is a fear that she will say, good take the whole box and I will buy the next round to boot.

I do not think guilting her into an improvement of sex life would work. I think she has felt guilty enough for so many years as it is and all it does is increase the pressure on her which always backfires. Sure chem castration is a pretty sever form of action but really is it?? we take pills for everything, what is really so bad about lowering your sex drive? I know ideally in marriage couples should be able to communicate about everything and anything. My wife and I have never been good at communicating about sex or intimacy.

Now it would depress me if she suggested I up the dosage and jokes aside she might just say that!!

I will concede that while I was taking 100mg per day I felt snappy, but not I am back to 50mg/day, while I can still feel the effects I am do not think I am crabby. I would certainly be more crabby if I was sexually frustrated...even when not in a cage.

Incidentally my wife let me out the other night for some fun, and we did have a wild time (I snuck in a little viagra and used a cock ring), It was interesting I woke at about 4am with a pretty decent hardon probably some viagra left over but I was not tempted to make use of it. Normally in the shower I would reminisce the following morning, especially if I was replacing the cage once washed but I was not even tempted to do that, well maybe a bit but i didn't...so replaced cage and no woody last night...so I guess 50mg/day is more than enough, if no sign of woody tonight then 25mg/day which is one of the good things about Androcur vrs depo is you can tweak your dose. I will cut it back till I start being woken again then tweak it back up again.

Gadzocs I can truly relate to the retraining necessary for the intimacy without sex. This is one of my ultimate objectives to gain the trust of my wife again. This was one of the main motivators that started me and then us out with cage play. It does work up a point where I can't contain myself any more...so I am hoping I can get there this time. I will say one thing though is that at least using the cage helps my wife not forget about sex. Nor me for that matter...lol But I did ask my wife the other night if she minds being in control of sex, she said that she likes it, and sex is definitely better when she decides when. This journey is really all about giving me the ability to keep the intimacy promise, sex drive is a powerful thing, the angry frustration feeling, it is such a relief for that to be quiet for the first time in a very long time.

Hey Cogman, is there a webpage with a photo of this "cage" that you wear? I'm trying to picture what this looks like. Do you sleep with this thing on? It sounds uncomfortable as all get out.

Hi Mate,

Yep it stays on 24 hours per day and the longest I have worn it continuously is 2 weeks.

I have 2, one is the CB3000 and the newer one I am using now is called the CB6000, pictures can be found here http://www.tickleberry.co.uk/pages/cb6000.html.

They take some getting used to wearing. One of the major issues to getting used to them is night time erections. Before Androcur I would wake some times as many as 5-6 times in a night. Now since I don't get night time errections I don't wake up...which is bliss from a cage point of view...lol, I know of people in the caged scene who would take androcur JUST so they would not be woken at night!! I don't think this is a good enough reason though.

To be honest it is very comfortable to wear, sometimes forget its there. Although I am not working out currently (plan to soon start up again) I have run many Kms while caged, it does not impact your day to day much at all. Its a bit of a hassel to clean while its on, but you develop a ritual, and its a bit of a hassel to pee sometimes.

Update for me though, currently uncaged, my wife decided I should take it off before we went camping in case someone dacked me in the swimming pool....probably wise..lol, now she has her period so seems a bit pointless putting it back on for now...I feel a little bit depressed not wearing it and having relieved myself. There is definitely something to be said about wearing a cage, not masturbating seems to maintain a positive energy...works for me anyway.

I am down to 25mg per day and I am pretty sure morning time still no activity. Could not help myself and tried it out...much harder to get it going than normal, and what came out was really clear...and what really surprised me was the exhaustion I felt following....next few days, well it takes some concentration but I am pretty sure if wifey was involved I could manage normal intimate relations. I will put the cage back on in the next few days, and if morning woody still not present I might drop back to 1/4 tablet per day. My intellectual desire still seems as strong as ever, but its interesting looking at women...I am more picky, and I am quicker to categories some women as "sluts"...also notice my sense of smell seems better. One thing that worries me is that I feel significantly weaker...but that could be my imagination. I also feel like my cognitive ability has lessened?

Shame I don't see any hair regrowth like you did... but I spose its only been 2 and a half weeks.

cogman (imported) wrote: Tue Oct 02, 2007 7:33 pm One thing that worries me is that I feel significantly weaker...but that could be my imagination. I also feel like my cognitive ability has lessened?

Shame I don't see any hair regrowth like you did... but I spose its only been 2 and a half weeks.

I found the photo of the thing... fascinating. I think if I had found out about it sooner I might have given it a try.

On the feelings of strength and congnition, I developed a theory that nearly all of my motivations (to work, to exercise, to cook dinner) have some kind of sex drive that powers it. I began to wonder about this for some reason a while back, and it occured to me that if I take any particular scenerio and play it totally out, there was almost always a sexual motivation at the end,... like a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. If I was making dinner (dinner=happy wife who doesn't need to cook=now she'll see me in a favorable light=sex), or working at my job (job=money=man of house is a good provider=sexy in the eyes of women=sex) or just about anything. Now that I don't look for that pot of gold, I find getting motivated a little more difficult than usual. I was a little lethargic at first but I bounced back after I learned to think intentionally about my other motivations. Also, thank god for coffee.

cogman (imported) wrote: Tue Sep 25, 2007 4:08 pm Hi MrT,

No probs, I think part of not telling the mrs is a fear that she will say, good take the whole box and I will buy the next round to boot.

I do not think guilting her into an improvement of sex life would work. I think she has felt guilty enough for so many years as it is and all it does is increase the pressure on her which always backfires. Sure chem castration is a pretty sever form of action but really is it?? we take pills for everything, what is really so bad about lowering your sex drive? I know ideally in marriage couples should be able to communicate about everything and anything. My wife and I have never been good at communicating about sex or intimacy.

Now it would depress me if she suggested I up the dosage and jokes aside she might just say that!!

Hummm... I sounds so confusing to me. I suspect that with the drug you are taking you really have been able to "dial" down your sex drive. I apparently had only two modes. On and off.

I would like to explore the guilt into sex question. Could it be presented in a way that its not "guilting her into sex?" I mean you must be fairly open if your into CB6000s. I assume she has taken to that? I have to admit I'm curious about this role reversal. The women I've spoken about sex drive, initiating sex and so forth would probably never unlock you but not because they are not horny. It would be because they felt cheap or Needy or slutty asking you for sex. If you SO is able to be proactive about her sexual needs I say more power to her.

If you were matter of fact and told her (for example) that your erections cause you a lot of discomformt when your sleeping and this drug does away with those I think she would say "great?" Or is part of the CB stuff you being in agony? Then if you added "oh, and it dulls my sex drive. " Then see what her reaction is. If she says "Oh" well... Then you have told her and you continue on. If she says "Wow.. Can we turn it all the way off? I would sure like that!" Then you can open the discussion as to why. Is sex for her not working? Is she (for example) in menopause and suffering vaginal dryness and finding sex not only ungood but painfull? Or is the technique your using not bringing her to Orgasm? Both of those things can be fixed easily enough. *And again these are just examples. If she says "Hey, I wondered why your not begging me for sex. I WANT you to beg me for sex so hand over the pills/shots babe!"

Lack of night time erections can make even us un-caged guys sleep better. I also get them only after using Viagra. And to be honest that can be kind of annoying! *I know - just typing that seems weird. I like having the capacity to get erect. I just don't appreciate it as much at 3, 4, 5 AM.

Hi MRT,

The lack of night time arrousal is really just a side bonus for me. Although I have told my wife that it does wake me during the night she chose to ignore it, but if I told her just how bothersome it was she would not have me wearing it...if said I was taking a drug for that reason, it would be the end of both. It IS a BIG side bonus though...to go from being woken sometimes as many as every hour all friggin night to not at all. You only find out just how many night time errections you do have when u wear a cage!!

She may understand my desire to reduce my libido though, and I am not 100% sure about the switch thing yet, right now because I am able to see if it still works, my function is definitly impared but I THINK and hope that with a little shot of viagra (cut 100mg into 4) I should be good to go.

Still going slowely, I am traveling right now...but I will probably put the cage back on on Friday as the wifes period will be coming to an end as well...I may drop to 12mg/day and wait for signs of morning woody. But it does seem once its switched off it does not take much to maintain.

Funny, I do seem to be admiring women even more now...and I would like to have my way with them from a curiosity point of view more than a drive point of view. I used to peak out after about 3 days in the cage in terms of wanting a release...last two sessions, days 3 and 4 have been like any other....easy to control...well nothing too control!!..See how we go this time...