Should MEXICO build a fence and keep the US out...

[sag111 (imported)]

Their you go again Lurker making good sence again:)

[BossTamsin (imported)]

How did this get to be about healthcare (http://www.eunuch.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=11410)? Why not use the thread we already have about healthcare (http://www.eunuch.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=11410) in the US to talk pro or con about the state of healthcare (http://www.eunuch.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=11410)? Do these last few replies need to be moved to the healthcare (http://www.eunuch.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=11410) thread, so we can talk again about the topic prior to the healthcare (http://www.eunuch.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=11410) hijacking?

PS: Healthcare (http://www.eunuch.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=11410).

[pierymarc (imported)]

Socialists are still trying to push their nonsense. The reality is that it is mostly a return to feudalism. You have a tyrant dictating every move of the population and all must follow without reservation. The only difference is that in old world feudalism one followed the liege and in socialism one follows the state(dictator). In both systems, no one owns anything except for those in power. The greatest enemy of the socialist is the "la bourgeoisie". In English that means middle class. Any question to that should be referred to a French--English translational dictionary. In feudal times, the greatest threat to the aristocracy was the trade class (including everything from carpenters to physicians to engineers to butchers), those now called the middle class. They liked the power of being an elite class with only a peasant class way down below. Modern socialists have the same wish. To be powerful bureaucrats with a weak labor class far down below. The bureaucrats eating beluga caviar and riding in Zil limos while the laborers wait in line for a loaf of bread and save for a lifetime to buy a Trabant. Any wonder why wealthy liberals exist? Look at Paris Hilton, declaring herself as American Royalty! That is not an accident. The entire Hollywood scene is rampant with such garbage! The 1917 revolution did not eliminate the royalty. I just changed the dynasty from one set of elite to another. And, I am sorry to say, all of these bleeding heart "liberals" are either cunning bastards trying to usurp power for themselves, or they are being bamboozled by those that are. The liberal elite flourished during the 1930's depression, and did all that they could to extend the depression as long as they could. The post war boom of the 1950's should be referred to as the age of the middle class, as they were the driving force of the prosperity. The rise of the liberals in the 1960's brought a lengthy recession.

Just remember that socialists keep "very good" company: Saddam Hussein, Hugo Chavez, Fidel Castro, Josef Stalin, Adolf Hitler, and Benito Mussolini, not to mention others. Troubled by lumping Saddam Hussein with Adolf Hitler? Well just remember that the Bath party that Hussein was leader of was created by Hitler for the purposes of controlling the Jews in the middle east. And, while in control, the "state" owned the oil infrastructure and all major industries. Also, while Hitler targeted the Jews, Hussein targeted the Kurds. The Yugoslavian civil war is considered by liberals everywhere as a justified mission, because it happened on Clinton's watch. So by their criticism of the current conflagration, I suppose they are saying that European lives are far more worthy a cause than Kurdish lives. Sounds like racism to me. And while the liberals continue to chant "no WMD'S", let's not forget the 600 odd tons of weapons grade uranium found in Iraq that wasn't supposed to be there. Of course the liberal press kind of sort of forgot about that.

And finally, remember that the constitution provides for the regulation of professions (medical and otherwise), not the providing of such. By-the-way, Mussolini (a fascist, and socialist) had a national health care system in place. It didn't work well though. Also, the AMA is not government organization. It is a professional association like the Bar Association is for attorneys.

Perhaps we can even open up the field of medicine to everyone, and we must not discriminate! We should let the severely mentally retarded become neurosurgeons, if that is their fantasy! Or let roving salesmen sell turpentine as a cure-all... Oh yeah, done already a hundred years ago or so. Which is why medicine and pharmaceuticals are regulated.

Another Oh yeah... I do know shit. I worked in the health care industry for most of my adult life. Do we need insurance reform? Of course! Only an idiot would say no. Do we need to change the way hospitals do business? Another resounding YES!!! Unfortunately, the changes most propose will change nothing. The entire hospital system needs overhauling from the ground up. But, the problem is not the doctors or technologies. I'll leave this for another post.

[Blaise (imported)]

...Since Bill Gates is no longer the richest man in the world...

A MEXICAN IS! (http://business.guardian.co.uk/story/0, ... ss&feed=24)



waddya say to THAT!?

So you do read The Guardian! :-\

Great article.

[Blaise (imported)]

Everyone dies. The entitlement mentality is ruining this country. You want health insurance, go earn enough money to pay for it. It is a luxory, like cars and televisions. (Re: the transgender girl in Jail)

The basic concept behind our constitution is that you provide for yourself. There is no guarantee that you will be provided food, which is neccessary to maintain life, yet somehow the government should provide you with healthcare? Silly notion.

The rush to equalize the availabilty of health insurance in the 1990's has virtually destroyed the American medical community. HMO's and the like are horrible, yet they are better than what would be available after a government mandate.

The expectation is that you shall go forth and earn your keep.

With that said, I truly believe that we have a responsibility to care for the weak, aged, and infirm. And fortunately there are systems in place for MOST of these people. No system is perfect.

Most of the readers of this board own computers. Are they willing to sacrafice some possessions like their computers, or IPods, or bowling nights to provide their own healthcare? I think not. Make it the goverment's responsibility.

To be completely transparent: I am a single male in my 40's. I average around $33,000 per year in salary, and I live in Los Angeles which is expensive. I want health insurance. I pay for it. Fortunately i don't use it very often. I do not own a home and likely never will. If my insurance rates go up, then I will have to cut something else out of the budget. BUT IT IS MY RESPONSIBILTY.

Socailism is a bad thing. It leads to all things being mediocre.

It is hard to disagree with you. My experience is similar to your experience. I almost never used my health insurance until I was 59 years old. Lower direct income was a benefit when I consider how much my insurance covered. My experience of government is that is does not provide services all that well.

[pierymarc (imported)]

To get back on topic, make this new billionaire pay for the transportation of all of the "non-visaed tourists" from Mexico back to their own country. And by reclassifying them as tourists, you get around the birth-right issue, as by treaty, all babies borne of tourists are citizens of the country of origin of their parents. Avoids many sticky problems for tourists, and as such, can solve many problems with undocumented aliens. If they are reclassified as tourists, they are not eligible for any entitlement programs intended for citizens. And for all of those "We the People..." nuts with their "it doesn't say 'We the citizen'...crap, The preamble of the Constitution starts: We the People OF the United States... NOT: We the People IN the United States... To me, a person OF the United States is a citizen. And, those people OF the United States are referenced throughout the Constitution as citizens. Then, once they are all back on their side of the fence, we build it, they build it, what does it matter then?

[The Lurker (imported)]

Markdf wrote: "

You REALLY need some cancer. I'm sure then you wont feel that healthcare is a luxury. A plague would be nice too -- I'm sure you'll be wishing that someone had tried harder to get everyone innoculated before it became a serious problem.

"

My mother died of Lymphoma in 1997 at age 57, and currently my father is recovering from surgery to remove cancerous colon tissue. My mother's death was horrible to watch, and as a son who loved her dearly it was frustrating to be helpless to find a cure. Fortunately, my Dad's prognosis is

good. In both cases it was my family's resposibilty to find my folks healthcare. The government should not and did not play any role.

The funny thing about people who argue without resources, is that they often resort to pettiness and hostility. By capitalizing the word REALLY in his post, I have to assume that he REALLY wants me to have cancer, which is just plain evil. In another post he called me stupid. Amazing. I am trying to have an adult dialogue on serious issues and I am called names and condemned to death. I hope mark realizes how horrible his behavior actually is.

As for other who disagree with me, I am open to read your arguments at any time.

[The Lurker (imported)]

My original post was a repsonse yo Mac's reference to Canadian Healthcare...

[Riverwind (imported)]

Nowhere in the US constitution does it say that Americans are entitled free health care.

No where in the US Constitution does it say that Americans will pay income tax or gas tax or Social Security tax but we do.

Americans love to think of themselves as #1, #1 in everything, we don't like second place, its not part of our nature, our national health care needs to cover the 45 million Americans that have no health insurance and change our rank of #37th in the world in health care, what would you suggest? There are a lot of hard working Americans that don't make even near what you do and if there company doesn't offer health insurance which most don't and to get health insurance will take half or better of your spendable income, what should we do, just tell that group tough shit. Over 10 million of them are kids. I felt as you do about 8 years ago when I started looking into this problem, the more I look at it the more it cries out for National Health Care. If your really interested in the problem with our health care system follow the Money, when you do you like I have you will be looking at the insurance companies, look at there bottom line, look at how they do business, how they treat you and me. The health care in this country is broken, if you don't want national health care, then what would you suggest to fix it for everybody?

River

[kristoff]

This thread has gotten way off topic, and is getting rather heated. Some folks need to calm down.