Caith721 (imported) wrote: Sat Sep 10, 2011 7:42 am In their blind pursuit of the almighty dollar, US corporations have shipped manufacturing hardware and jobs overseas, putting thousands of citizens out of work. People can no longer trust employers, nor can they trust politicians, so just who do they have left to trust? Nobody but themselves. It's time for a new revolution to wake up the fat cats in boardrooms and Washington DC.

The problem isn't the corporations -- their sole job (and legal responsibility) is to maximize profits. That means they are not allowed to create jobs, especially high-paying jobs. I work in a big corp, and we work all day at eliminating jobs or reducing the cost of employees (through outsourcing and automation).

The problem is our expectations for corporations to create jobs. Instead, we should understand what they do, and harness that mostly through taxation. If taxation makes the corps move entirely out of country, then use tariffs. Basically, our goal should be that everything consumed within the US is made in the US, even if that requires protectionist regulations. That is both self-sufficiency and job preserving. We also need to aggressively tackle any unfair foreign trade practices -- in particular the China unfair dollar pegging. Chinese labor is artificially cheap. What normally happens if labor is cheap, it quickly equalizes because the region gets richer and the currencies correct. I visit China a lot, and the people there now live quite well (nice apartments, nice cars, big tvs, etc.). So what should happen is that currency should trade such that they no longer look like cheap labor -- once people in China live as well as we do, their salaries should look equivalent. However, the Chinese government manipulates their currency. We should punish them harshly for this -- tariff all Chinese goods according to the the amount of manipulation.

Anyway, enough about that. The problem with America is that the people have lost their mojo/confidence. We're still really awesome, still create the most, consume the most, have the best military, have good freedoms, beautiful geography, etc. But I don't see people really "feeling" this?

If we want corporations to come to the usa we need to do the same things that the Chinese do

Politicians in this country look at corporations as a fat tax pig ripe for the slaughter

The Chinese don't..they see them as employers of their people

The only way to keep corps in the usa is to reduce the road blocks..no taxes or paperwork the the chinese dont require needs to be done away with

has anyone ever looked to see how the chinese tax system is set up...they have a excise tax on all imports...why not us

you can see thier tax system here..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_i ... c_of_China

how long will this stupidity continue in this country....people buy chinese products and destroy this countries jobs in the process

http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subc ... inCatID=12

SplitDik (imported) wrote: Sat Sep 10, 2011 8:37 am Anyway, enough about that. The problem with America is that the people have lost their mojo/confidence. We're still really awesome, still create the most, consume the most, have the best military, have good freedoms, beautiful geography, etc. But I don't see people really "feeling" this?

When you take away people's jobs and livelihood, you dampen their mojo/confidence. When they cannot find profitable work to replace their lost job, their mojo/confidence sinks even lower. When too many no longer trust neither their government nor their employers, is it really any wonder no one really gives a crap, anymore?

Caith721 (imported) wrote: Sat Sep 10, 2011 6:05 pm When you take away people's jobs and livelihood, you dampen their mojo/confidence. When they cannot find profitable work to replace their lost job, their mojo/confidence sinks even lower. When too many no longer trust neither their government nor their employers, is it really any wonder no one really gives a crap, anymore?

No, that's exactly the wrong attitude I'm talking about.

America has always been faced with serious problems. There's never actually been any "good old days". If we weren't fighting WWI we were in a Great Depression and Dust Bowl, prohibition and fight against mafia, suffrage and women's rights, and then WWII and then Cold War with Korea, Cuba, Vietnam, black rights, Macarthyism, threat of global nuclear war was really serious right through the 1980s, Oil Crisis, other terrorism fights through 70s and 80s, recession in the 80s, Gulf War I and II, savings & loans scandals, HIV, high tech stock bubble burst, Sept. 11, and our modern times. We've been scared of Nazis, Red Menace, Japan's economic dominance, Al Quaida, China, etc. There are lots of people still living who've gone through ALL of this, and frankly I've seen half of this in my life.

The only problem now is pessimism instead of optimism. Instead of thinking that democracy, our spirit, our inheritance of the pioneering spirit that brought our families here, etc. will pull us through, people are just giving up.

Honestly, what we're facing right now is less than we've faced many times in the past. There is no serious military threat to us, and frankly the economic threat isn't that dire if we wanted to address it without bickering. There's no other country doing better than us right now. We're still the best, and still have the brightest future.

SplitDik, I agree. My mom is nearing her 97th birthday. She's lived through two World Wars, a Depression, and every other alarm that's befallen us, yet she remains determined, active, and optimistic. She believes she controls her own life. I can't say the same. I'm moody and depressive and anxious. I think an essential difference is that my mom's generation assumed they were responsible for themselves and they they made their own good fortune. That was a given of American life. I believe the liberal project, while accomplishing many good things, has harmed the American psyche. Liberalism often assumes that most people are helpless creatures of their environment and the circumstances of their birth; that they are oppressed by dark powers and conspiracies of evil men; that there is no hope for them except in collective political action. All this makes the individual weak and vulnerable. If we have to wait until the "Revolution" to be saved, the fact that it isn't here leaves all of us terminally screwed. I don't think I exaggerate when I describe the harm this has done - generations of people hearing again and again that they depend upon the generosity of their rulers. How demoralizing.

Without addressing previous uploads and just the thread topic;

the lack of qualities of "citizenship" would be the short answer.

Citizenship as exemplified by being good against convenience. And upright and honest, etc.

Hollywoodism if you will.

Or those qualities supported via Scouts now substituted with better paying athletics. Starting at age 7.

Patriotism, Americanism, and good manners have been replaced by the "jock" generation. Win at any costs!

I support getting "sports" out of Public Schools! It has influenced too far.

Little League - Yes. High School Baseball - No.

Maybe if we take "winning" which gets pushed to 'at any cost' out of the equation , a better America would evolve.

I believe we are seeing the "Jock Generation" in charge. That means +1 point to GPA for Sports involvement.

Moi

sduyck_2000 (imported) wrote: Sat Sep 10, 2011 12:27 pm If we want corporations to come to the usa we need to do the same things that the Chinese do

Politicians in this country look at corporations as a fat tax pig ripe for the slaughter

The Chinese don't..they see them as employers of their people

The only way to keep corps in the usa is to reduce the road blocks..no taxes or paperwork the the chinese dont require needs to be done away with

has anyone ever looked to see how the chinese tax system is set up...they have a excise tax on all imports...why not us

you can see thier tax system here..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_i ... c_of_China

how long will this stupidity continue in this country....people buy chinese products and destroy this countries jobs in the process

http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subc ... inCatID=12

Actually, China isn't doing anything right economically and they are in dire trouble. I visit there on business every couple of months, and there is NO reason to be scared of their economy being better than ours (what we need to be scared of is they are about to implode).

First of all, the reason they get jobs isn't the tax structure, it is the cheap labor. And the labor is cheap because they manipulate the currency. They are doing a HUGE amount of protectionism. In fact, not only do they manipulate the currency, but they make it really hard for a non-Chinese corporation to set up there. Basically you can only set up a Chinese corporation, and there are lots and lots of rules that force it do comply with Chinese very onerous laws.

Secondly, there is a huge amount of corruption there.

Thirdly, there is a dangerous amount of speculation. You think our housing bubble is bad? It is about 10x worse in China right now -- they have whole cities that were built speculatively and totally vacant. Read this: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... erted.html

Fourthly, there is a huge amount of social unrest as the poor people realize that the work they are subjected to isn't worth it.

So basically, China is on the verge of implosion. I think it will happen similar to the previous "Asian Economic Flu". What will happen is some big Chinese conglomorate will have a corruption scandal and that will expose cooked books. That will cause defaults on huge loans and that will ripple through the speculative economy, totally devasting it just like our housing bubble. Meanwhile, US will finally strike back against the currency (we have to do this, and it is on many of the presidential candidate's platforms). As tens of millions in China suddenly become unemployed, there will be huge public unrest.

Anyway, China is NOT a model for the US. They are the most protectionistic country there is, and have yet to learn all the hard lessons about corruption and speculation that we've already been through.

bobover3 (imported) wrote: Sat Sep 10, 2011 11:48 pm SplitDik, I agree. My mom is nearing her 97th birthday. She's lived through two World Wars, a Depression, and every other alarm that's befallen us, yet she remains determined, active, and optimistic. She believes she controls her own life. I can't say the same. I'm moody and depressive and anxious. I think an essential difference is that my mom's generation assumed they were responsible for themselves and they they made their own good fortune. That was a given of American life. I believe the liberal project, while accomplishing many good things, has harmed the American psyche. Liberalism often assumes that most people are helpless creatures of their environment and the circumstances of their birth; that they are oppressed by dark powers and conspiracies of evil men; that there is no hope for them except in collective political action. All this makes the individual weak and vulnerable. If we have to wait until the "Revolution" to be saved, the fact that it isn't here leaves all of us terminally screwed. I don't think I exaggerate when I describe the harm this has done - generations of people hearing again and again that they depend upon the generosity of their rulers. How demoralizing.

Has anybody realized that this was not a compliant when the economy was good, the world is going to hell only when the economy is bad.

Now how to fix the economy is the question, republicans want to cut every program there is democrats want to push the government to do more. Bob you want the good old days back were people felt empowered, fix the economy and the problem is solved. Yes Bob, when people have a job with a living wage they are empowered, the economy thrives, everybody is happy. People want jobs, they don't want a hand out much to the belief of the republicans.

One thing is true, I think you may have noticed it as well, we no longer have a congress that works, from the time they are elected they are running for office again, its a two year process that takes most of their time. Even Mitch McConnell said the most important business was to defeat the president in 2012 that was right after the last election. And her I thought the most important business would have been getting this country working again.

If you want to find problems there are more then enough to find on both sides of the isle. The true challenge is, is congress up to the task of helping this president getting people back to work? Or have they decided they can wait for the next election? Do they risk showing their true colors?

Extremist never win in the end, they are always defeated by the moderate view. I wonder if we will ever know who is controlling the pawns (tea party people).

River

Four year old thread.

Wow.

Four year old thread.

Wow.

And guess what, the world hasn't come to an end. Nor has the USA crumbled into disorder and chaos.