WunGawn (imported) wrote: Fri Feb 02, 2007 12:28 am any outside source of testosterone is not going to be the same as natural production.

i think you should try injections because dont convert to estrogen so much, with androgel if you use a high dose it will cause estrogen dominance wich can be the cause of your complaints on 1 pack a day.

has anyone been able to get it up without trt?

estrogen can cause decreased orgasm intensity in males.

has the majority of you not on trt been able to get it up and have an orgasm, or not at all?

Actually, Androgel causes way less estrogen that injectables, (At one pack a day) especially injectables like cypionate. A little estrogen actually enhances the effects of testosterone, however, like you say, too much of it starts causing other problems, sexually.

Hash (imported) wrote: Sat Jan 20, 2007 6:01 am I am using some HRT (1/2 pack of androgel daily, a whole pack did not return me to where I was before I was castrated), I can get an erection and ejaculate. Some have said that there is no real change in sexual pleasure and orgasm after one becomes a eunuch, I disagree. Without my testicles, using a small amount of HRT, I do not feel my testicles pulling up, I do not feel my scrotum retracting, and my penis is not as sensitive, therefore I do not get as much pleasure from it as I once did. This could be from low testosterone, but I've used more and more "t" does not mean more pleasure or more excitement, not that I'm wanting more excitement. But for me, my eunuch condition, does not give me the same feelings I had before I was cut. Again, I seldom think sexually and I am not controlled by my sexuality, which is what I wanted. But I think everyone should understand that things will change sexually after castration, even with testosterone use. Comments?

I can't comment on your exact situation because I have testes (Although not working right) Here is my take on it *For what its worth. With low T like upper 200s or bottom 300s. Sex didn't feel worth doing. Orgasm? Sure I had it but it wasn't important to me. I felt disinterest. If I was "talked" into sex did it feel good? Yes, but clearly not so good that I rushed back the next night and said WOW lets do THAT again. When I got on Androgel my sex drive took a long time to recover but when it did I felt "wired" for sex and it felt great and amazing. I can't think of specific sensation changes so much as an attitude that this is great I want more of this. Orgasm was amazing but it also didn't satisfy my desire that much. I found myself thinking "Maybe I can go twice" or that type of thing.

I don't know if that helps. BTW a half packet of Androgel is a very very low amount of testosterone. What kind of blood levels does your Doctor say your at?

testosterone replacement therapy isnt as simple as it seems, there is a lot to it but to give you an idea, target hormone ranges are:

estradiol: 10 to 30 pg/ml

total testosterone: 650 to 750 ng/dl

although high shbg comes into account.

shbg lowers free testosterone but also estrogens aswell, it is more favourable to bind to testosterone then estrogen, so that comes into account regarding estradiol and testosterone ratio.

Hash, many hormones are responsable for sexual function, pregnenelone, progesterone, dhea, dht, dihydrotestosterone, estrogens, brain chemicals, its basicly every hormone, testosterone has quiet afew precursors wich are produced in the balls, try get your hands on a pregnenelone cream as this is the mother-hormone.

WunGawn (imported) wrote: Fri Feb 02, 2007 8:49 pm testosterone replacement therapy isnt as simple as it seems, there is a lot to it but to give you an idea, target hormone ranges are:

estradiol: 10 to 30 pg/ml

total testosterone: 650 to 750 ng/dl

although high shbg comes into account.

shbg lowers free testosterone but also estrogens aswell, it is more favourable to bind to testosterone then estrogen, so that comes into account regarding estradiol and testosterone ratio.

Hash, many hormones are responsable for sexual function, pregnenelone, progesterone, dhea, dht, dihydrotestosterone, estrogens, brain chemicals, its basicly every hormone, testosterone has quiet afew precursors wich are produced in the balls, try get your hands on a pregnenelone cream as this is the mother-hormone.

I thought I knew a bit about hormone replacement but I've never even heard of pregnenelone cream. In a quick search on the net I find numerous links to joint ache creams and Chinese herbals? I've been kind of once bitten twice shy on things I find on the internet. Much of it sounds great but you often find its not been tested in a real clinical trial. Is pregnenelone even tested in a doctors office?

If I understand Hash's statement he is under-dosing on Testosterone. If thats not up to a healthy level he is not (In my experience) going to feel real sexual. Btw my doctor has me taking dhea but she said progesterone (for example) was not a good idea *At least for me. And I "think" in general men who need HRT. Since mine are non functional I'm curious what other precursors are produced in the balls?

well i just spoke to a doctor, pregnenelone is produced in the brain and primarily in the adrenals therefore i am starting to doubt wethr it needs to be supplimented.

you can always get dhea, pregnenelone and the rest tested.

Did you find out why your balls wernt working properly? were you primary or 2ndary hypogonadal?

pregnenelone is available in the US over the counter as a suppliment although in some countries you need special permision to import it.

compounding pharmacies make pregnenelone or progesterone cream wich is transdermal.

WunGawn (imported) wrote: Sun Feb 04, 2007 6:02 am well i just spoke to a doctor, pregnenelone is produced in the brain and primarily in the adrenals therefore i am starting to doubt wethr it needs to be supplimented.

you can always get dhea, pregnenelone and the rest tested.

Did you find out why your balls wernt working properly? were you primary or 2ndary hypogonadal?

pregnenelone is available in the US over the counter as a suppliment although in some countries you need special permision to import it.

compounding pharmacies make pregnenelone or progesterone cream wich is transdermal.

Ahh! Ok, thats more then I found. Part of the problem with the internet are the zillions of "hits" that are meaningless. By the way I do get my DHEA-s tested every year (or is it 6 months) anyway my doc keeps a close eye on it. I was a little surprised she told me to add that but... She knows more then I do. My "pair" was fried by the mumps most likely according to my Doc. They were limping along until some years ago when the symptoms of hypogonadism started getting really bad. I thought I was ready for mental health meds! Not fun. Thanks for that info. I'll ask my Doc if that might be a good addition. Although to be honest I feel pretty great right now.

www.allthingsmale.com/word_docs/TRT.doc

this is the best infomation you will find on trt

WunGawn (imported) wrote: Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:54 pm www.allthingsmale.com/word_docs/TRT.doc

this is the best infomation you will find on trt

Ok, I appreciate the link but I've had a long discussion with three different doctors (oops make that 4!) who say this gent's take on several things is not good. In particular I asked my Doc(s) to give me a try on HCG for that nagging atrophy problem. While HCG is used for fertility its never used for more then say a 6 month shot.

*And yes, I know of and have talked to some men using this but... Here is the deal.

No clinical trials for long term use of HCG and thus pretty untested waters and my Docs think (and I agree) unsafe. I think anyone reading this guys suggestions should take that into account and maybe rethink.

Is it possible he is right? Perhapes. But in my case I'll take the advise of my experts. I don't want to pioneer anything on my own.

And btw this is NO slam on you in any way. I came across the exact same stuff got very excited and went right to my Docs to request this type of treatment. When I got the first NO WAY I even tried to contact this guy and was told he did online consults and would prescribe over the phone??? My BS alarms went on full power. Too much like ONLINE Viagra. And I think you know what you get when you order that. Some herb that raises your blood pressure thru the roof (maybe / "F"ing you up good) or pills with nothing in them but rarely "Viagra."

And please all the guys who do order this junk and love it. please your not going to change my mind. I was one of the dopes who tried internet Livetra and nearly stroked out. Your not going to change my mind on how good an idea it is to buy drugs from www.giantswanceviagradrug.com (or whoever) is.

i see where your coming from and fair enough, i am still trying to gather opinions aswell about this.

doctors who follow conventional medicine wont agree on hcg use, but did you tell them the dose? 250iu 3 times a week. doctors usually prescribe hcg in doses of about 1000 to even 10000iu at a time.

i thought that doctor wont prescribe over the phone, and he wont prescribe anything without seeing a patient in person or have another doctor see them in person and work with him. did he really say that he would prescribe without you seeing him?

im not saying it isnt but did your doctors say why hcg could be dangerous?

fyi testosterone pellets apparently dont cause as much atrophy as other treatments, and have fewer side effects, but require a minor surgical procedure every 3-4 months to have them put in.

WunGawn (imported) wrote: Tue Feb 06, 2007 2:31 am i see where your coming from and fair enough, i am still trying to gather opinions aswell about this.

doctors who follow conventional medicine wont agree on hcg use, but did you tell them the dose? 250iu 3 times a week. doctors usually prescribe hcg in doses of about 1000 to even 10000iu at a time.

i thought that doctor wont prescribe over the phone, and he wont prescribe anything without seeing a patient in person or have another doctor see them in person and work with him. did he really say that he would prescribe without you seeing him?

im not saying it isnt but did your doctors say why hcg could be dangerous?

fyi testosterone pellets apparently dont cause as much atrophy as other treatments, and have fewer side effects, but require a minor surgical procedure every 3-4 months to have them put in.

I think the best way to form an opinion is to learn for yourself. I say approach that doctor and try calling him for more information. If his staff asks for your visa card and offers an "on the phone" appointment then for me I would say thanks but no thanks.

Here is my impression of HCG. Its a very serious fertility treatment and nothing to fool with. No one has tested it for long term use. A guy on the internet saying its great is not the same as a clinical trial.

So... When you take it for more then 6 months (No matter what the dose) your exploring new waters on your own. Danger? I "think" so and my Doctors say its not safe for this type of use. Ditto men using clomid for long periods. Steriod "Abusers" are known for doing this. This is not N O T smart.

This is (I admit) another probably clueless internet opinion. Mine And is ONLY my two cents worth. Testosterone HRT is going to interrupt the control signals to your testes and all of it causes atrophy. I was (I admit) really suprised when the last Doctor I saw clearly said "If you keep taking Androgel your atrophy will get worse." If you look around the Internet you will see all kinds of folks who say "Gels don't cause Atrophy." Testosterone Implants insert T into your blood stream and thats what causes the signals to your testes to shut down. Keep a steady flow of T and the testes get smaller and smaller. *Squisher also but now I degress...