Kangan (imported) wrote: Tue Oct 03, 2006 8:57 am Thanks for a most interesting response. I have to agree with 98% of what you say about psychiatrists.

As for calling your gonads "parasitic organs" - I have to disagree with this. Without gonads, there would be no reproduction - and that is the primary biological function of most life - to multiply itself. I'd have to say that our brains are the real parasitic organs - without them we wouldn't need psychiatrists or be discussing castration issues at all!

All meds are an "art" not a science and shrinks even more so. *An opinion. We have a couple of foster kids who have greatly benifited from them however so I would not discount them out of hand.

I think there is a good thread to talk about gonads/hormones and the influence these create in a man. (Or ovaries in a woman) I've had a good look at both sides. Having healthy hormones means being "driven" I was trying to put down in words what that means to me. Driven to do things, to be sexual etc. When its just switched on from being in the OFF mode for a long time its a bit of a shock. I think that the inital feeling is almost of being carried away by it. Puberty in young boys who have all these "hormones" and are just wired to screw anything that moves for example. I can understand who a person without any self control switches would feel just carried away and not appreciate being a man. On the other hand for me I have a firm hand on my self control switches and a wonderfull outlit for my sexual desires (Mrs T) and find life with that "drive" to be a great thing.

However back to the initial question. I think it would be interesting how many people are here due to the following reasons.

Castrated not by choice (Accident, Cancer, chronic pains, etc)

Castrated by choice for sexual fetish type reasons

Castrated by choice for self control reasons.

Castrated by choice for other reasons (Atrophy, cosmetics)

And then after that I would be curious about the use of hormones.

None a hard core Eunuch

Strong Estrogen (Transexual Cocktail)

Strong Testosterone

Some minimum health only dose of either.

Kangan (imported) wrote: Tue Oct 03, 2006 8:57 am Thanks for a most interesting response. I have to agree with 98% of what you say about psychiatrists.

As for calling your gonads "parasitic organs" - I have to disagree with this. Without gonads, there would be no reproduction - and that is the primary biological function of most life - to multiply itself. I'd have to say that our brains are the real parasitic organs - without them we wouldn't need psychiatrists or be discussing castration issues at all!

Kangan, thanks for your kind comments.

Most of what I had to say about pscyhiatrists was only a summary. There is so much more to say; we could digress further into every aspect of psychiatric theory but this is perhaps not the right thread for that. My main intention was to briefly demonstrate that it does not really matter what psychiatrists have to say, because of the bogus and corrupted nature of the field, and even in spite of all the power they have to exercize social control.

As to the remarks regards "parasitic gonads" - please let me clarify. I did not mean to say that gonads were without purpose. I simply mean that there is a dual and conflicting interest to most sexual organisms when it comes to reproduction. It is called the "cost of reproduction", I believe. On one hand, you can have optimum health/vitality and no reproduction; on the other hand, you can trade off some of your resources and energy and deploy them in sexual reproduction, instead of further increasing your health and longevity. Breeding and associated behavior is usually very bothersome and requires a lot of energy and that energy is taken on behalf of other bodily tissues. This is exactly why gonads are the only organs that are inactive for the first 12 years of our life (except shortly before birth) - all the other organs, including the brain, are fully functioning and developing right after birth. This is also why castration results in increased life spans for most living organisms, from the extreme examples of salmon and some insects (more than 100% increase in life expectancy) to about 15% in larger mammals, simply because castration serves the purpose of preservation of self whilst gonadal output facilitates preservation of species on behalf of self. So, from a strictly individual standpoint, these hormones are completely unnecessary and parasitic.

However, this is not to say that hypogonadism is neccessary alien to propagation of the species. The concept of eusociality - societes where only a select handful of individuals ar allowed to breed - is actually an important part of nature that occur in many species to varying degrees (from complete eunuchdom in social insects and naked mole rat to decreased sexual hormones and behavior in subordinate flock members in rabbits, wolves, etc.)

Some scientists have also speculated if the use of eunuchs in ancient times was a similar kind of extended human version of eusociality.

However, I definitely believe that our brains are, perhaps, the most valuable organ in our possession. Without the brain to guide us in this world no higher life forms would have been possible (and we could breed asexually, with minimum resource depletion and such unpleasant side-effects).

mrt (imported) wrote: Tue Oct 03, 2006 9:27 am All meds are an "art" not a science and shrinks even more so. *An opinion. We have a couple of foster kids who have greatly benifited from them however so I would not discount them out of hand.

Actually, I have nothing against psychiatry if they:

1. Come forth and publicly admit what they really know about the so-called "mental illnesses", the "science" behind their claims, as well as how their "imbalance correcting" drugs really work;

2. Consent to complete separation of psychiatry and state and immediate cessation of involuntary commitment, drugging and electroshock.

If some people feel that their lives are better after chemical intoxiaction and brain damage, by all means, it is their private right to continue as long as they are aware of what they are doing and no coercion takes palce.

However, I DO feel sympathy for the poor children who are forced to consume toxins simply because their parents and caretakers cannot afford more time and effort to appropriately meet their needs.

mrt (imported) wrote: Tue Oct 03, 2006 9:27 am Castrated not by choice (Accident, Cancer, chronic pains, etc)

Castrated by choice for sexual fetish type reasons

Castrated by choice for self control reasons.

Castrated by choice for other reasons (Atrophy, cosmetics)

And then after that I would be curious about the use of hormones.

None a hard core Eunuch

Strong Estrogen (Transexual Cocktail)

Strong Testosterone

Some minimum health only dose of either.

I guees then I would be "

mrt (imported) wrote: Tue Oct 03, 2006 9:27 am Castrated by choice for other reasons

" and a "None a hard core Eunuch".

Eunuchist (imported) wrote: Mon Oct 09, 2006 1:47 pm Actually, I have nothing against psychiatry if they:

1. Come forth and publicly admit what they really know about the so-called "mental illnesses", the "science" behind their claims, as well as how their "imbalance correcting" drugs really work;

2. Consent to complete separation of psychiatry and state and immediate cessation of involuntary commitment, drugging and electroshock.

If some people feel that their lives are better after chemical intoxiaction and brain damage, by all means, it is their private right to continue as long as they are aware of what they are doing and no coercion takes palce.

However, I DO feel sympathy for the poor children who are forced to consume toxins simply because their parents and caretakers cannot afford more time and effort to appropriately meet their needs.

I guees then I would be "

mrt (imported) wrote: Tue Oct 03, 2006 9:27 am Castrated by choice for other reasons

" and a "None a hard core Eunuch".

I'm curious how you came to be castrated (Kimmel or Spector?) and why you opted for no HRT? Or not? Its none of my biz really.

I think we agree for in general I'm not a fan of mental health meds. MrsT uses some now and the initial drug was one that would have made her (most likely) a female eunuch (asexual anyhow) and that would have made me a very unhappy MrT. We had to switch doctors explain our (my) fears and fortunatly she is taking a less troublesome drug.

As to kids and meds. Again in general I don't like this one bit the idea of dialing down kids who are loud and creative with meds. That said we have taken in kids who have been in very bad families who are WAY out of control. As in making enough trouble to bring the police to ask what the hell is going on. In addition not being able to sleep because they fear "Birth Daddy" will come back etc etc etc. Way too horrific stuff to talk about really. So in "SOME" very specific cases with very troubled kids and with a good doctor who is not just writing out scrips for the fun of it I do consider it ok or even essential. Maybe you have had contact with kids who have been raped, beaten regularly etc or not. I assure you this DID change my opinion on SOME drugs and some doctors who prescribe them. I'll admit that I still think a vast majority of this stuff is given for the wrong reasons to the wrong people. Hell I was told that if my hormones had not been tested and found to be near zilch that I would have been offered depression meds. *Not that I would have taken them!

I would have to admit that I also have a distrust of many doctors. I've seen more then a few and the smallest percentage impress me as being "good" doctors. Ones who diagnose causes rather then treat symptoms for example. Treat the entire person and not just the one problem and so forth. Just being able to communicate with patients seems a lost art. Several urologists I've "spoken" to never shut up about Golf or whatever for me to have a chance to say anything. Just insane...

Relative to some of the foregoing responses, I can say, categorically, that I would be up "shit creek" without a paddle, without the assistance of 1 or 2 extremely helpful psychiatrists, as well as some well prescribed "psyche meds." It took some time to determine which worked well for me, but I AM grateful for them.

As a former and recovering psychologist, I readily admit that the entire field of personality and clinical work is highly artistic, although I do allege that the science is advancing, albeit slowly. Notwithstanding the seemingly erratic appearance of the field at times (yes, I could tell many interesting stories....), it is in fact a worthy pursuit, and must not be dismissed wholesale; such an approach is as much the approach of the charlatan as are some who profess to be professional in the field of psychiatry. Maintain some healthy skepticism, but work with what is there.

I don't care how the content of the DSM is derived. While it is not the bible that some profess, it does lend some direction to thought, process, inquiry, and approach. It helps direct the brush stroke of the artist. The whole give and take of the process is just a more transparent aspect of what is in fact the approaches of science - just look at the back and forth vascillations of "science" through the ages - no more really need be said.

When the voices of reason compete with the voices of one's mind, tell me how you will know the difference, and to which you will listen.

I was fortunate to be helped by a sympathetic therapist when I needed it badly. I also had a useful experience with antidepressants. I can see where there is room for skepticism about the methods of psychiatry but, in my case all went well as I'm sure it has in many others. --FLO--

What do psychiatrists say? Well mine thinks I have a gender identity problem, this revelation caused my medical doctor and I to laugh so hard the nurse came in to find out if we were allright.

It has been my experience that most, not all, but most of us know exactly why we want them gone and are glad to be rid of them. I know that most of the eunuchs and I know a bunch would never be noticed as a eunuch by the public. We are just men without balls and glad of it.

The other thing I have noticed is that of non eunuchs and eunuchs, you may find as I have is that the eunuchs make the best and most loyal friends you can ever have. I am not sure why this is so but it goes beond other boundres, we are stright, gay, bi, young, old, TG, and put us in a room together and you would think we were all a tight family.

Final note, my eunuch friends are the best people I have ever known and totally real.

River

Riverwind (imported) wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2006 6:14 am What do psychiatrists say? Well mine thinks I have a gender identity problem, this revelation caused my medical doctor and I to laugh so hard the nurse came in to find out if we were allright.

It has been my experience that most, not all, but most of us know exactly why we want them gone and are glad to be rid of them. I know that most of the eunuchs and I know a bunch would never be noticed as a eunuch by the public. We are just men without balls and glad of it.

The other thing I have noticed is that of non eunuchs and eunuchs, you may find as I have is that the eunuchs make the best and most loyal friends you can ever have. I am not sure why this is so but it goes beond other boundres, we are stright, gay, bi, young, old, TG, and put us in a room together and you would think we were all a tight family.

Final note, my eunuch friends are the best people I have ever known and totally real.

River

I definitely concur with Old Man River here...

On the other hand, I do think Gender Identity Disorder for some eunuchs and wannabes is very possibly a real issue, and not from the perspective of MtF. Why not MtE or Non-Male, Non-Female, A-gender transexual? Certainly makes for an interesting concept, particularly thinking of "genderless" eunuchs as transgender.... First heard an interesting dicussion of this concept from Uncle Flo. Perhaps he could enlighten us more?

Perhaps I'll do just that. But it will have to wait until I get through my current virus induced funk. --FLO--

I have seen a psychiatrist regularly for last five years, specifically because of my desire for castration. I first submitted myself for psychiatric evaluation after I was in the emergency room of a hospital after yet another attempt at self castration. The psychiatrist listened carefully, didn't seem shocked or anything, said that I was suffering from an obsession and that anti-depressant SSRIs had been helpful to people who act out compulsively against their better judgement. He prescribed Celexa and referred me to a psychiatrist for regular counseling.

I have to say that the Celexa worked almost immediately -- within a couple days I went from hurting myself every day (I'd crush my balls in a door every morning before my shower, etc.) to rarely even thinking about it.

My main psychiatrist treated me professionally as well. His personal view is that I have a paraphilia (which I don't quite agree with), but in any case he feels SSRI is reasonable treatment. He also asked me to bring in all my castration tools and drugs so we could destroy them together. Otherwise, he just listens and occasionally adjusts my dosage depending on how much self-control I'm exhibiting.

So for those non-transexuals seeking psychiatric treatment I would definitely recommend right away approaching it as a compulsive behavior and a paraphilia. Even if a psychiatrist is not familiar with treating paraphilia, there is a lot of literature to which they can refer and which will get you in the right direction. Once you are diagnosed with paraphilia you can even get hormone treatments prescribed (my psychiatrist is willing to do this).

As long as you fit into a classification that they can find literature on, psychiatrists will be comfortable treating almost anything.