I've discussed this issue too many times in too many places to actually care about discussing it anymore. But yes, I too like the term 'Human'. Sometimes even earthling.

One thing most everyone on this planet does, is fall in love with someone. That we all have in common. What we also have in common, is that it's usually never the same person that everyone else has fallen in love with.

Some of those people are tall, some are short. Some have blonde hair, some dark hair. And the list goes on and on, up to and even including the genitals. Some have vaginas, some have penis'.

So where's the emergency?

I see true love as one soul falling for another soul. All souls are dressed differently, and that's all our bodies are, is an outfit for our souls. And we don't even get to take them when we die. We gotta leave them here just like a rented tux.

Some souls have dark skin, some don't. Some have penis', some don't.

And after all, how can you truly love one soul unconditionally, if your love for that soul is dependent upon their genitalia? That's a conditional love. "I'll only love you if you have a vagina".

How about we just get rid of all human genitals and then we won't have any arguements over them anymore?

numnuts (imported) wrote: Tue May 30, 2006 6:34 pm I've discussed this issue too many times in too many places to actually care about discussing it anymore. But yes, I too like the term 'Human'. Sometimes even earthling.

One thing most everyone on this planet does, is fall in love with someone. That we all have in common. What we also have in common, is that it's usually never the same person that everyone else has fallen in love with.

Some of those people are tall, some are short. Some have blonde hair, some dark hair. And the list goes on and on, up to and even including the genitals. Some have vaginas, some have penis'.

So where's the emergency?

I see true love as one soul falling for another soul. All souls are dressed differently, and that's all our bodies are, is an outfit for our souls. And we don't even get to take them when we die. We gotta leave them here just like a rented tux.

Some souls have dark skin, some don't. Some have penis', some don't.

And after all, how can you truly love one soul unconditionally, if your love for that soul is dependent upon their genitalia? That's a conditional love. "I'll only love you if you have a vagina".

How about we just get rid of all human genitals and then we won't have any arguements over them anymore?

To my way of thinking, this is an incredibly well thought-out and beautifully expressed viewpoint, mindset, or portal (I think those three words capture the essence of what I am trying to express). This resonates with me a lot -- emotionally, physically, and spiritually.

Thank you to NN, you are anything but numb (pardon the play on words).

numnuts (imported) wrote: Tue May 30, 2006 12:31 pm Choosing to be gay would be the equivalent of choosing to be black instead of white in the 1950's and before. Ask anyone who feels drawn toward humans with a similar gender, and they will all tell you that they'd have paid any amount of money to not feel that way.

You would have to be a masochist, even today, to choose to be gay in any highschool. The fear and confusion alone is enough to give most people a nervous breakdown. Who would choose not to fit in? Who would choose to be made fun of? Who would choose to be assaulted?

I have always maintained that no one chooses to be fat, stupid, ugly, poor, or gay. Who would choose that?

You write with such strong feeling. I am and always have been gay; it has made me question and reflect on everything fed to my young mind which was incorrect with my own outlook. I am grateful for that. Most gay men and women grow up not revealing it widely. Would I pay someone to 'make me straight?' NO! That remark is deeply homophobic. I read with sadness the comments and generalisations you make which maybe true of redneck smalltown, flagwaving USA. Of course hate crime occurs everywhere but

the values demonstrated today in the UK for example show that the police advertise to the entire community, in papers & on buses etc that they will

not tolerate homophobic crime. Police forces are advertising in the gay press and officers attend Gay pride marches. Hate crime occurs but society, in general, is very different to the picture and comment you posted.

Civil Partnerships are part of our legal rights, at last.

I note a huge chasm in the societal values between the USA and Europe.

You paint a picture of the USA still stuck in the 1950's. Please tell me I'm wrong. I think I accidentally added a karma point to your thread; it wasn't intended I'm afraid.

Christina, do you know why the Swedish study was restricted to right handed people only? Maybe its down to the lobes in peoples brains, in which case oughtn't they do an identical study with left handed volunteers and yes,

for the sake of political awareness and equality. What do you think?

Sac_mec (imported) wrote: Fri Jun 02, 2006 7:31 am I note a huge chasm in the societal values between the USA and Europe.

You paint a picture of the USA still stuck in the 1950's. Please tell me I'm wrong. I think I accidentally added a karma point to your thread; it wasn't intended I'm afraid.

Sadly yes. There are still places in the USA where bigotry and hatred towards others rears it's ugly head. A lot has been done in recent years to pass laws to protect those from abuse. Not all cities/states have those laws in effect though (although the numbers are increasing). Even with the laws in place, there are those who will still choose to force their beliefs onto others.

Sac_mec (imported) wrote: Fri Jun 02, 2006 7:31 am Christina, do you know why the Swedish study was restricted to right handed people only? Maybe its down to the lobes in peoples brains, in which case oughtn't they do an identical study with left handed volunteers and yes,

for the sake of political awareness and equality. What do you think?

I don't really know the answer to that one. If I had to hazzard a guess, it would be to say that perhaps they used right handed people in their study because the world is predominently right handed and somehow suggesting that left handed people may be different in their thought process.

I do have to say that this study (along with the many others that have been done to date) are showing more and more that being gay/lesbian/transsexual has more to do with biology than social upbringing. This is something that many of us already know and that science is out to prove to those non believers.

Sac_mec (imported) wrote: Fri Jun 02, 2006 7:31 am You write with such strong feeling. I am and always have been gay; it has made me question and reflect on everything fed to my young mind which was incorrect with my own outlook. I am grateful for that. Most gay men and women grow up not revealing it widely. Would I pay someone to 'make me straight?' NO! That remark is deeply homophobic.

Well it's certainly not meant to be, especially given the fact that I'm homosexual. Perhaps I didn't express myself well enough.

I was speaking specifically from the initial discovery of realizeing one is homosexual. For me at least, this happened at the onset of puberty. That itself is a most confusing time in any person's life, let alone throw in the mix of considering that one is homosexual on top of it all.

That was my experience as a teen in the late 70's, early 80's. And I've come to learn that it was a very similar experience with many other's going through the same ordeal at that time in middle America.

At 'That Time', myself, and many people I know would have gladdly done anything to feel heterosexual. At 'That Time' of self awakening and discovery. At that very fragile time of becomeing a sexual being. Yes, I would have paid any price.

Would I do that 'Now'? No, certainly not. And neither would any of the people I know that shared this similar experience. Not now, not at all. But back then... without doubt, yes.

Sac_mec (imported) wrote: Fri Jun 02, 2006 7:31 am I read with sadness the comments and generalisations you make which maybe true of redneck smalltown, flagwaving USA. Of course hate crime occurs everywhere but the values demonstrated today in the UK for example show that the police advertise to the entire community, in papers & on buses etc that they will not tolerate homophobic crime. Police forces are advertising in the gay press and officers attend Gay pride marches. Hate crime occurs but society, in general, is very different to the picture and comment you posted.

Civil Partnerships are part of our legal rights, at last. I note a huge chasm in the societal values between the USA and Europe.

You paint a picture of the USA still stuck in the 1950's. Please tell me I'm wrong. I think I accidentally added a karma point to your thread; it wasn't intended I'm afraid.

Are they beating homosexuals in the streets? No. But that doesn't mean they're being embraced in middle America. Fortunately the tides had turned against ignorance and bias, but that progress is currently being squashed by conservative America. There is a long way to go here.

I am thrilled that Britain and many other countries with great thought and compassion have embraced homosexuals by giving them equal legal entitlement as their heterosexual counterparts.

America however, currently has a residing president that is fighting to alter The Constitution of The United States of America so that it Discludes a segment of it's people, so that it DIScludes a percentage of it's society for equal liberty, and equal rights.

Whatever progress homosexuals have made recently, is being reversed and is heading back to the 1950's by this current administration. In essence, America's President is fighting a war on foreign soil, in foreign countries to free and liberate it's people from oppression, while still having the energy to disclude, denounce, and disallow the rights and liberties of a large percentage of America's own population.

I have to agree that being gay in my freshman year in high school in 1970 was not easy. I never wanted to be straight but I would have liked not to be abused by my classmates. They had decided I was gay before I had it figured out. It would have been nice if I could have come to terms with it before the onslaught.

Nummynuts I too was a child of the 60s and 70s. I was lucky because although my secondary school friends (ages 12-17, then) knew I was gay I didn't face any abuse over it at all. I think all of us where so new to the changes in our bodies and lives plus the pressures of exams and I think maybe some knew I had problems at home. I was reasonably popular among my peers and so being gay was just unimportant even though the school was quite tough.

Your thread as a whole made me sad and made me wonder what had happened with all the support of the early gay movement and the radical influence of groups such as the GLF. Sadly AIDS has taken the lives of so many nice and beautiful men of our generation.

I didn't mean to question your sexuality but I felt some natural hurt reading a sentence suggesting all gay men would pay to be straight. It is just that remark and the comment about ugly and fat people which seemed hurtful.

I guess everyone would love to be beautiful and slim but if nature follows its natural course (ie no lyposuction) then we all get fatter; some people do actually look more beautiful/as beautiful as old people to, don't you think?

I hope that you understand I just wanted to challenge that remark and not challenge you. Friends?

I was never anything but friends. I think it's obvious we're after the same thing with different ideas and experiences.

We all have different experiences. It's all perspective.

Even if we didn't seem to illuminate the same subject, I still say we all own this world equally. No one person anymore than the other.

To me, this planet is simply a lifeboat floating through the universe. Many souls come, and many souls go. But no one of us can claim the lifeboat. It is simply a vessel. And no matter our conviction, we are ALL 'Temporary'.

But that's just how 'I' feel. Some people feel they own the lifeboat. Some people feel more 'Special' than anyone else. Those people are usually rich, or politicians. And more often than not, just rich politicians.

I appreciate your opinion. I am a guest here. Not only on this board, but on this planet. I seek only to have all things equal. For all people, for all humans. (Toots own horn!) (And btw, does my horn smell like everyone elses?) LoL.

The bottom line is, I think we're after the same thing. We've just had different ends of the animal.

Either way, I come in peace, and I wish for you the best.