Robert Heinlein wrote a post nuclear war sci-fi book called “Farnham's Freehold”.

It’s main characters encounter a culture in which castration is the requisite for the ascension to power. One of the main chracters does loose his nuts.

I just saw it was reissued, on an expedition to Barns and Nobles.

Steve

BroBear

But also, in Songmaster, one of the main characters is brutally emasculated, cock & balls removed.

Also, in Hart's Hope, there is a prolonged and indepth description of castration as a criminal punishment... and the main character barely escapes castration himself.

BroBear (imported) wrote: Mon May 31, 2004 1:44 pm Robert Heinlein wrote a post nuclear war sci-fi book called “Farnham's Freehold”.

It’s main characters encounter a culture in which castration is the requisite for the ascension to power. One of the main chracters does loose his nuts.

I just saw it was reissued, on an expedition to Barns and Nobles.

Steve

BroBear

I'm sorry but you are incorrect. You should reread it. The charter was castrated because he stayed with his mother (in a slave holding culture ).

It's a very good book, and the ending is a supprise.

_g

_g (imported) wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2004 7:10 am I'm sorry but you are incorrect. You should reread it. The charter was castrated because he stayed with his mother (in a slave holding culture ).

It's a very good book, and the ending is a supprise.

_g

Well _g, You may be right on this.

I read the book 6+ years ago, and I am now a card carrying member of the AARP, so old timers is setting in.



Steve

BroBear

Dear friends,

There is a very well-written novel by the late British lesbian writer Mary Renault entitled "The Persian Boy" which includes a reasonably explicit castration scene (though it is never clear exactly what he loses) as well as the use of court eunuchs as sex-slaves in Ancient Persia. The hero, Bagoas, is a beautiful gelded boy who becomes the lover of Alexander the Great. (Readers might also be interested in the prequel: "Fire from Heaven" ). Both books are in print and published by Random House. Mary Renault was a trained classicist and researched her books thoroughly and included great historical accuracy. Bagoas, the Eunuch, was a real person, though obviously Renault has invented her fictionalized account of his life. I read, somewhere, that Bagoas will be a character in the new Oliver Stone version of Alexander the Great's life. "The Persian Boy" is very well worth reading, regardless of whether or not you have an especial interest in castration or eunuchs. For those interested in romantic love between Ancient Greek youths, her other novels ("Last of the Wine" and "The Mask of Apollo" - both set around the time of Socrates) are well worth a look (surprisingly romantic and full of fascinating historical detail). Renault also wrote a history book on Alexander the Great which gives a brief mention of Bagoas entitled "The Nature of Alexander". Other Ancient Greek novels by Renault include "The King Must Die", "The Bull from the Sea" (both about Theseus) and "Funeral Games" (set after the death of Alexander). All are still in print.

Best regards,

Karelescu

Hello, again.

I've just checked with Amazon.com, and "The Alteration" is unavailable but scheduled for re-release on 24 August 2004 in the US (I don't know about the UK). The first fifty-or-so pages, which deal with the powers-that-be trying to persuade the boy to become a castrato, are probably the best. There is a quite poignant moment when the choirboy asks his brother what it is like to make love to a woman. When the boy asks if the castration will hurt, he is reassured by being told that there will be lots of soothing creams (oh well, that's all right then). The boy is put off the idea by the sight of fat, old church eunuchs. I am not a fan of Kingsley Amis and never finished the book. I would advise that anyone interested keeps his/her/its money and tries a library or a second-hand bookshop.

There is a boy who wants to be a eunuch in "The Scorpion God", a collection of three short novels by William Golding (yes, the one who wrote "Lord of the Flies"). The boy is the son of the Pharaoh and is disturbed by the the fact that he's going to have to marry his older sister (Oo, those naughty old Ancient Egyptians! What would mummy say?). It's quite amusing, if you can bear Golding's leaden prose. This one is in print and has nothing to do with the recent film of a similar title (sadly) - "The Scorpion King", as if you care.

The Marquis de Sade was not above the occasional bit of cutting in his novels. "Juliette", which is far more extreme than the better-known "Justine", contains many total castrations. At one such moment, there is a beautiful boy whose (to quote Juliette herself) "virile parts were swept away by a scalpel, wielded by me, in accordance with his father's wishes". If I remember rightly, the boy was then defenestrated. Apart from castration, there are also blindings, breast-removal by tongs, clit-severing, anal-impaling with iron poles, amputations, breast-removal by fireworks...in fact, everything the armchair sadist could ask for. But be warned, the book is interminably long (over 1000 pages of small print). As one witty wag once said: "The real masochism of de Sade's books is reading the bloody things". Personally, I found "Juliette" so over-the-top that I almost laughed my head off when I read it - "Justine" is slightly less fun because she is always taken against her will - and the anal-and-vaginal-stitching bit has to be read to be believed! Golly, what some people will do for a tight hole!

New paperback editions of "Juliette" and "Justine", plus "120 Days of Sodom", were published in the UK back in 1992/3/4? (but using poor, old translations). I've no idea about the US market. I expect they're still in print, or in secondhand bookstores. Recommended if you have a cast-iron stomach, a very good sense of humour, and take it all with a huge pinch of salt (or something similar, if you are so inclined). They are definitely "don't try this at home" novels.

If I think of any more instances of eunuchs in fiction, I will let you know.

Regards,

Nicky Karelescu

Dear Karelescu,

Bagoas, the featured character in "The Persian Boy", apparently lost only his testicles. In those times, "White" eunuchs were usually allowed to retain their penises. Further, there are some indications (in the various sex scenes) that he experienced sexual pleasure, with hints at orgasms. This would pretty much bear out the idea that only his testicles were cut off.

Apart from the deductions made from reading the book I've had conversations with, among others, a professor of Greek History and Classics (A university here in Texas) that support this conclusion.

Great Topic!

Yolanda(AKA Yoli)

A nice castration-fascinated girl in San Antonio.

Dear FUBG/Yoli, Re: "The Persian Boy" by Mary Renault. 29/30 June 2004

Thank you for your posting. I agree. It does seem likely that Bagoas only lost his testicles. There is a moment when he is being trained in the arts of making homosexual love in which he seems to be trying to ejaculate, but experiences terrible pain. Later, when he is making love with Alexander the Great, Big Al comments: "At least they didn't take that from you", which implies that the eunuch ejaculated - and this is several years after the boy's deballing. This is not unrealtistic. Although it is often true that men, especially when castrated in later life, experience vastly diminished sexual responsivity, some still retain full ability, even without hormone therapy. Furthermore, boys castrated soon after puberty often remain fully-functional for many years (even over-functional). Priapism has even resulted in some cases, regardless of age.

What is interesting, is that Mary Renault was, I think I am right in saying, a nurse during the Second World War. It is quite possible that she saw, at first hand, the results and aftermath of battlefield-castration-woundings. Perhaps, when she wrote about Bagoas, she knew what she was talking about in regard to the post-castration performance of war-damaged male genitalia. Those of a male homosexual persuasion may be interested in her novel, set during the Second World War, about two gay soldiers entitled "The Chariotier" - it has nothing (directly) to do with Ancient Greece or Rome, but I can't recommend it because I haven't read all of it; so read under advisement. It is in print.

I am currently boning up (if that is the right phrase) on two other novels, one of which features accidental ball-busting (in a most unusual way), and the other features penectomy by saber-toothed vagina (slight exaggeration: it is the vagina of a beautiful green-haired alien, the lips of which are lined with retractable, razor-sharp teeth - no girl should be without one!...Not). The former is by the 1920 Nobel Prize-winning Norwegian novelist Knut Hamsun. The latter is a 1960s/1970s novel published (in the UK), by Penguin Books. Unfortunately, I can't recall the title or author of the latter, but Hamsun's book is entitled "The Women at the Pump" - and I am unsure whether or not a pun is intended in the title.

I'll post details of both books when I get a reply from Norway, but I hold out no hope for the Sc-Fi, unless, by chance, another member has read it.

Best wishes, Nicky.

______________________________

Karelescu

Originally Posted by BroBear

BroBear (imported) wrote: Mon May 31, 2004 1:44 pm Robert Heinlein wrote a post nuclear war sci-fi book called “Farnham's Freehold”.

It’s main characters encounter a culture in which castration is the requisite for the ascension to power. One of the main chracters does loose his nuts.

I just saw it was reissued, on an expe

_g (imported) wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2004 7:10 am dition to Barns and Nobles.

Steve

BroBear

I'm sorry but you are incorrect. You should reread it. The charter was castrated because he stayed with his mother (in a slave holding culture ).

It's a very good book, and the ending is a supprise.

_g

"Farnham's Freehold" is an excellent book. In it, a nuclear explosion sends a "White" family into the future where Blacks rule. Whites exist as slaves. Males, except for breeders, are castrated and have their thumbs removed. It's been more years than I have fingers and toes since I read this book, but I've thought of it often since then. Would like to read it again.

Some of my stories-A New Order and subsequent stories-were strongly influenced by this book. It is, I guess, where I got the idea for those stories.

Realize, however, that what I just told you about that book are 20-30 year-old memories.

Hi. It's that man again. Has anyone thought of running a poetry strand? (creative or resourced?). Slammr inspired me. But, please, no limp lyrics about the light on your lover's lovelies. If I can think of a reaonable poem, I'll post it.

Nicky Karelescu.