A question for UK members:

[Slammr (imported)]

First rule of writing: write about what you know. Set your stories in the States. I, and I suspect most British readers, appreciate the exotic stories set in America, complete with colloquialisms. It helps to broaden understanding. I believe stories set in the UK are best constructed by British authors. As suggested by others, you're unlikely to comprehend all the subtle nuances of the English language.

(I've read that again and it seems a bit snooty and pompous, but really I just love reading the thoughts and dreams of different cultures. It opens a window on new worlds. The worlds aren't very far removed from the author's experience, but are thousand's of miles from mine.)

The problem is that I'm currently writing a Harry Potter story for the Archive, and since I've already posted quite a few chapters, I'm rather committed. Although I expect to make mistakes -- as I've said in another post -- I don't want to screw up too badly.

[strassenbahn (imported)]

Well what's the difference between a bloke and a mate? Can your mate be a bloke?

Yes in the same way that in the U.S. your "pal" is also (for others) a "guy". "Bloke" corresponds to the American "guy" (which has come into increasing use in Britain), i.e. a familiar third-person term to describe any man, without any sexual connotation. However, used with the possessive it is the equivalent of "my guy" and implies -- as another poster indicated -- all that "my guy" implies. "Bloke" is never used as a term of address. "Bloke" was originally exclusively employed by the working classes (this was certainly the case when I was growing up in the UK in the 50's and '60's in but its use has crept up the social scale. "Mate" (which I believe still largely remains a working class term, though perhaps less so than a few decades ago) has two meanings. Used in the third person with the possessive, as in "my mate", 'his mate," it corresponds to the American "buddy" or "pal"; it has no more sexual connotations than "buddy" or "pal" do. It can also be used as a familiar term of address to any male, though usually by a member of the working class to someone of the same class. In that case it is completely neutral in terms of friendliness/unfriendliness. Used by a member of the working class to a member of the middle class (using middle class to mean "white collar" in U.S. terms) it can convey a note of insolence, though it does not automatically do so. The context of the social situation, and tone of voice, are everything as in most human communication.

[colin (imported)]

How about the commonly used terms for penis, vagina, buttocks, and testicles? Our favorite term for penis these days seems to be cock, balls or nuts for testicles, pussy or cunt for vagina, and butt or ass for buttocks. It seems I heard that the British don't use cock or butt, but I'm not sure.

Don't know who told you that we don't use 'Cock' because that is a load of bollocks! But, 'butt' is a thing used to hold rain water or in the plural 'butts' may mean a place where archery is practiced. It can also refer to part of a gun or you can be "the butt of a joke" ie: someone is making a fool of you.

Of course, the words being used would depend upon the situation. Two boys talking 'dirty' would tend to use the coarsest expressions ie: cock, dick or prick. But if talking to someone in authority might use Willie or John Thomas. Winkle may also be used by small boys, but nowadays is most often used as a 'put down' ie: "look at that little winkle".

Testicles: Balls or bollocks, nadgers if you want to be a bit old fashioned. Cockney would be 'cobblers' which is just rhyming slang for 'balls'. I know, I know, but what happpens is that the rhyming word is dropped, the original expression is 'cobblers awls'. These days it is mostly used to indicate disbelief such as "That is a right load of cobblers!" or simply "Cobblers!" - "Balls" can also be used in this way.

Buttocks: Backside or bottom (which are fairly neutral), posterior (slightly pompous as in the phrase my maths master used to use - I shall give you two strokes of the cane across the posterior portion of your anatomy) and bum or arse which are slightly coarse. One word to avoid is 'fanny', when I was younger I was a bit bemused to read in an american comedian's biography about his 'falling on his fanny' - over here it is synonymous with vagina.

For vagina, 'cunt' is probably the most commonly used. It is also a term of abuse as in "he is a bit of a cunt". I used to have one Manager whose favourite abuse to a male employee was "You're not a cunt - you don't even have that use!".

LOL

[colin (imported)]

"Mate" (which I believe still largely remains a working class term, though perhaps less so than a few decades ago) has two meanings. It can also be used as a familiar term of address to any male, though usually by a member of the working class to someone of the same class. In that case it is completely neutral in terms of friendliness/unfriendliness. Used by a member of the working class to a member of the middle class (using middle class to mean "white collar" in U.S. terms) it can convey a note of insolence, though it does not automatically do so. The context of the social situation, and tone of voice, are everything as in most human communication.

To illustrate what Strassenbahn says. " 'scuse me Mate, can you tell me the time?" is quite neutral. A common greeting between acquaintances could be: " 'ow are yer, Mate?" although in London, 'Watcha Cock' can also be used. In this instance 'Cock' does not mean penis but it is very low class, just like me. Intentionally insolent would be: "Don't you talk to me like that, Mate!" and is used to indicate that you are no better 'n me.

LOL

[Kortpeel (imported)]

You know, the erudition contained in this topic is going to help a student of 20th century vernacular English get a PhD in a century or two.

I felt my mind whirling even as I read and this is exactly the kind of English I grew up with and speak, more or less to this day.

Slammr, don't worry too much about getting it spot on. I've written a few stories set in the states (darned if I know which one) and no-one complained about the vocabulary. The one mistake I was picked up on was when I called a wrench a spanner - it just slipped past me. So if you have cars in your story remember the hood/bonnet and trunk/boot translations.

Kortpeel

[kb57z (imported)]

The problem is that I'm currently writing a Harry Potter story for the Archive, and since I've already posted quite a few chapters, I'm rather committed. Although I expect to make mistakes -- as I've said in another post -- I don't want to screw up too badly.

Given that the 'real' Harry Potter books have their own problems - not the least that a school of magic marks Christmas and Easter, rather than the solstice and the equniox (or Yule and Eostre) you don't need to get too bogged down. You can put any errors down to differences between the 'magic world' and the Muggles.

If you're at all worried about the 'sexual terminology' being Americanised, you could always have Madame Pomphrey complaining that Sex Magic hasn't been the same since Kinsey got hold of it....

[strassenbahn (imported)]

Something else that non-British writers often get wrong is the title "Sir" -- I'm referring to the title of knighthood conferred by the monarch for merit, not "sir" simply used as a courteous form of address to an adult male one has not been introduced to.

"Sir" as the title of a knight is always used either with the first and last name together ("Sir James Jones" or just the first name "Sir James"), never, ever, ever with the last name alone. "Sir Jones" is a total howler of a mistake!

In addressing a knight in the second person, one just uses "Sir" plus the first (as the English would say, "Christian") name: "Pleased to meet you, Sir James". (Incidentally, the last, or family, name in England is called the "surname".)

In the third person, the custom is to employ "Sir" with both first an last names in an initial reference to make clear whom one is talking about (unless context has already made this clear), and then in subsequent references to use "Sir" with just the first name as long as the identity of the person remains clear from the context. Thus with A. talking to his friend B.:

A: You know, I ran in to Sir James Jones yesterday.

B: Really, I haven't seen Sir James [no need to repeat the last name as the identity is clear] for quite a while. How is he?

A: Sir James is fine. He's just finished spending a weekend in paris with his new boyfriend, Sir James Brown.

B: Sir James Brown? do I know him?

A: Sir James Brown [last name repeated to avoid confusion with Sir James Jones] is the brother of Sir Charles Brown, the famous castration surgeon.

A: Yes, I know of Sir Charles [no need to repeat the last name since the different first name eliminates the possibility of confusion with either Sir James Jones or Sir James Brown] and his wife Lady Brown. [Note that the wife of a knight has the title "Lady" followed by her husband's last name.]

Note in contrast that "Lord" (corresponding to a title higher than a knighthood) is used with either the first and last name together or just the last name. Thus, continuing our imaginary conversation between A. and B.:

A: Is Sir Charles the lover of Lord William Fortescue?

B: Yes; Lord Fortescue [note use of last name only as person is identified; A. could have omitted the first name in his initial remark, as only one person would hold the title "Lord Fortescue" at any one time] is also a doctor, and his wife Lady Fortescue is the president of the Women's League in Favor of Female Circumcision and De-Sexing. [Note how the wife of Lord Fortescue is "Lady Fortescue". Their daughter Sarah, who of course has just had her clitoris and labia removed and is seriously considering a purely elective/recreational hysterectomy, would be called "Lady Sarah", i.e. "Lady" followed by her own first name.]

[Slammr (imported)]

All fantastic information. I appreciate all those who've responded.

[strassenbahn (imported)]

Actually, this is like eating crisps (=U.S. potato chips): once you get going it's hard to stop. Here are some more tips:

I don't know if Harry Potter uses a cell phone, but if so he would refer to it as his "handy".

If Harry is careful about crossing the street he does so at a "zebra crossing", with all vehicles having to stop for a pedestrian who enters it. Zebra crossings are marked by a flashing orange globe on either end, the globes being mounted on black-and-white striped poles; there are also U.S. style crosswalks with "walk"/"don't walk" lights but these are not called "zebra crossings". I'm not sure what they are called. Incidentally in "zebra" the "e" is pronounced like the "e" in "met", not like the "ee" in "need". And the name of the last letter of the alphabet is pronounced "zed".

Harry is too young to drive, but if he could and came to what in the U.S. is called a "rotary" he would think of it as a "round-about" (also the name of a rotating playground device, which children spin around by running and hop aboard, thus making themselves dizzy; why they enjoy this is unclear -- at least it was to me when I was a child and so loved the device).

When nature calls, Harry goes to the "lavatory", often referred to by the familiar term "loo". In the old days, women often euphemistically referred to taking a piss as "spending a penny" because the booths they had to use in "public conveniences" (U.S. "restrooms") took one of the very large old copper pennies that existed before English currency was decimalized about thirty years ago. I don't know it this term survives, since of course the price is much higher now.

Decimalization of the currency introduced the abbreviatio "p" for "penny" (before it had been "d" from the Latin "denarius". The plural of "penny" as a sum of money (as opposed to individual coins) is "pence" and since decimalization it has been very common to abbreviate that in speech to "p" pronounced "pee", as in saying of something with a price of 75p "this costs 75 pee". Mind you, there aren't many things you can buy for less than a pound (symbol £ -- to get it in Windows either find it in symbol, or after setting Num Lock to "on" for your far right numerical keyboard hold down ALT and type 156).

Is it raining (as it often does in the UK)? Harry will be sure to put on his "mack" (abbreviation of mackintosh), a kind of raincoat though often used for any kind, and carry a "brolly" (frequently used abbreviation of "umbrella").

Finally, although Harry is too young to drink, he doubtless comes in contact with people who do, and might think of someone who is drunk "he's pissed". This mean's "he's drunk" and does not mean the person is pissing. (Note to UK readers who've been following this thread out of curiosity about Americanisms, in the U.S. "pissed" never means "drunk". It is alway a shortened form of "pissed off", meaning "angry".)

[kb57z (imported)]

Note in contrast that "Lord" (corresponding to a title higher than a knighthood) is used with either the first and last name together or just the last name. Thus, continuing our imaginary conversation between A. and B.:

A: Is Sir Charles the lover of Lord William Fortescue?

B: Yes; Lord Fortescue [note use of last name only as person is identified; A. could have omitted the first name in his initial remark, as only one person would hold the title "Lord Fortescue" at any one time] is also a doctor, and his wife Lady Fortescue is the president of the Women's League in Favor of Female Circumcision and De-Sexing. [Note how the wife of Lord Fortescue is "Lady Fortescue". Their daughter Sarah, who of course has just had her clitoris and labia removed and is seriously considering a purely elective/recreational hysterectomy, would be called "Lady Sarah", i.e. "Lady" followed by her own first name.]

I'm afraid that this isn't quite right.

There are 3 "Lord Fortescues":

- Baron Fortescue of Ousewold Moseley - the former Tory MP and Home Office minister Vaughan Fortescue, who not only voted to bring back hanging, but also introduced the amendment to reintroduce drawing and quartering as well. He was also a proponent of transportation (until the Australians threatened to reciprocate) and still regularly calls for the castration of rapists, shoplifters and people who urinate in public. He was created a life peer in John Major's resignation Honours List.

- Lord Fortescue of Nether Wollop. The judge Sir Archibald Fortescue, QC. He is a "Law Lord" and so is part of the final court of appeal in English Law (very approximately equivalent to a Supreme Court judge.) The "Lord" goes with the job. He is officially apolitical and required to avoid making public statements except as part of a properly-constituted court. He is, however, known to believe that six strokes of the birch would be a most appropriate way to deal with football hooligans, graffiti tag bombers and lady barristers.

Both of the above may be properly known as "Lord Fortescue", unlike the aforementioned Lord William Fortescue, who is the younger son of Albermarle Fortescue, 6th Duke of Penistone. Lord William's title is a 'courtesy' one, and to call him Lord Fortescue would be improper. His wife is properly styled 'Lady William', and their daughter, who merely the granddaughter of a duke, has no title and is plain Miss Sarah Fortescue.

Lord William's sister was known as Lady Matilda Fortescue until her marriage to Burford Cuttinge, the eminent uro-genital surgeon, who specialises in SRS surgery. There is traditionally an amount of inverted snobbery amongst surgeons, who adopt the title 'Mr' to distinguish themselves from mere physicians who call themselves 'Dr'. The Cuttinges are correctly referred to as Mr Burford and Lady Matilda Cuttinge. When Mr Cuttinge inevitably acquired his knighthood (marrying a duke's daughter being a good move in this respect) his wife will be both Lady Cuttinge as a knight's wife and Lady Matilda Cuttinge as a duke's daughter.

Marcus Fortescue, Lord William's elder brother is the Duke's heir. He uses the courtesy title 'Viscount Cockburn' (pronounced 'Coburn'; note no 'of'). His wife is known as Lady Cockburn. There are, as yet no children; this is of some concern as there is no male to inherit the title after the two brothers. (There is a persistent rumour of a childhood accident wth a device for castrating sheep.) I don't think that any child would have a right to a title, although it is possible that they would be styled 'the Honorable'.

The Duke himself, might be referred to as Lord Penistone, although 'the Duke of Penistone' would be more likely outside the rarified circles in which the nobility move. His wife, the Duchess of Penistone, is usually referred to as Lady Penistone.