Testosterone Cypionate

[DocT (imported)]

The stuff sucks! Keep off it! If its other unpleasant androgenic side effects were not bad enough, it will also eventually give you one or more of testicular cancer, prostate cancer, skin cancer, cancer of the penis, paranoid schizophrenia; and increase the likelihood of throat or laryngal cancer if you smoke.

Well I've been on it for almost 30 years out of necessity (got my balls torn when I was young) and my PSA level is 0.3. I've always had to take a pretty high dose too (like 800mg/wk) because my liver breaks it down with unusual speed. This just keeps me in the upper half of 'normal'. The other stuff you mention I can't find medical support for so I'd appreciate it if you could give me a reference to a bona-fide medical study. If you can't do this I would respectfully ask that you don't increase my paranoid schizophrenia by scaring me so bad.

DocT

[DocT (imported)]

Testosterone Cypionate

In women this may cause menstrual irregularities, hoarseness, deepening of the voice, clitoral enlargement, increased facial hair growth, acne or thinning of hair. Notify your doctor if any of these effects occur. If you notice other effects not listed above, contact your doctor or pharmacist.

Okay, now this really pisses me off!!! How come women get MASSIVE clitoral enlargement (it's true, I've seen it) and us guys get absolutely no penis enlargement whatsoever?

Just another cruel trick of 'MOTHER' Nature. Throw it on the festering pile of cruel tricks that include high sex drive coupled with thinning hair on the head coupled with uncontrollable hair growth FROM THE EARS!!!!!!

DocT

[polecat (imported)]

Just another cruel trick of 'MOTHER' Nature. Throw it on the festering pile of cruel tricks that include high sex drive coupled with thinning hair on the head coupled with uncontrollable hair growth FROM THE EARS!!!!!!

So true! Well, not quite. Mother Nature isn't cruel, just incompetent. Evolution is, as I say, survival of the Barely Adequate.

[JeffEunuch (imported)]

Okay, now this really pisses me off!!! How come women get MASSIVE clitoral enlargement (it's true, I've seen it) and us guys get absolutely no penis enlargement whatsoever?

Robby's list was incomplete. Depo-testosterone can result in penile growth. The list of side effects that came with it from my pharmacist included it. My own cock grew by about 1" following ingestion of depo-testosterone. My own doc told me after I noted the penile growth that this side effect depend on levels of deprivation earlier in life. Of course, a growth of 1" is not massive.

[Testman (imported)]

Okay, now this really pisses me off!!! How come women get MASSIVE clitoral enlargement (it's true, I've seen it) and us guys get absolutely no penis enlargement whatsoever?

Just another cruel trick of 'MOTHER' Nature. Throw it on the festering pile of cruel tricks that include high sex drive coupled with thinning hair on the head coupled with uncontrollable hair growth FROM THE EARS!!!!!!

DocT

My penis grew bigger after I started injecting testosterone. It started at 4.5 inches circumference and it ended up at 5.5 inches circumference. But if I take a very high dose, it temporally goes to 6 inches circumference! The length never increases though.....

[SplitDik (imported)]

On test you will get more frequent erections and that might stretch things out a bit. Otherwise, unless you've been testosterone deprived you'll probably have already acheived your genetic potential in size.

[DocT (imported)]

Robby's list was incomplete. Depo-testosterone can result in penile growth. The list of side effects that came with it from my pharmacist included it. My own cock grew by about 1" following ingestion of depo-testosterone. My own doc told me after I noted the penile growth that this side effect depend on levels of deprivation earlier in life. Of course, a growth of 1" is not massive.

Hey don't knock it. I'd like another inch of girth and length.

Actually, Jeff, I did get a lot of growth after I started started taking depo - when I was 19 years old. My penis was practically nonexistant from being deprived testosterone since my accident when I was 14. Before depo it was less than two inches long with kind of a softee eunuch erection. After a year of depo it was over six inches long. So, yeah, I agree with you - you get latent growth when you start depo if your levels were very low before.

DocT

[Eunuchist (imported)]

The stuff sucks! Keep off it! If its other unpleasant androgenic side effects were not bad enough, it will also eventually give you one or more of testicular cancer, prostate cancer, skin cancer, cancer of the penis, paranoid schizophrenia; and increase the likelihood of throat or laryngal cancer if you smoke.

I agree with John W. regarding the described effects of testosterone.

* Testicular cancer

Testicular cancer is the most common malignancy in young men between the ages of 20 and 34. 1 (http://www.cancerlinksusa.com/testicular/facts.asp) This form of cancer is extremely rare in children and elderly men (past 40), wich clearly suggests a role of androgens in the process. If ture, wich it seems to be, this may be of an issue for the intact hypogonadals.

* prostate cancer

This one being obvious enough, among others considering 81% of the Chinese eunuchs in a 1960 study had an impalpable (nearly non-existant) prostate. 2 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/quer ... uery_hl=17)

* skin cancer (melanoma)

The role of testosterone in the gender discrepancy of this disease has been linked to androgens (especially DHT) in medical litterature, particularly due to the fact that these cancer cells happen to have androgen receptors that adds to the prolifiration of carcinoma: estrogen might not be protective, whereas testosterone might promote melanoma progression 3 (http://www.asco.org/ac/1,1003,_12-00263 ... 782,00.asp) , 4 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/quer ... query_hl=6) "And testosterone may have an effect on the development of melanomas." 5 (http://www.nature.com/bjc/journal/v80/n ... 0637a.html), 6 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/quer ... t=Abstract) . Additionally, melanoma is more aggressive and more deadly in people with reduced immune response - and we all know that testosterone is an immuno-suppressant 7 (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/236488.stm).

Castration may be advisable for patients whose tumor is disseminating. 8 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/quer ... uery_hl=15)

* - cancer of the penis

I was unable, as yet, to find any references for this, although you may be aware of the sources? Nonetheless, penile cancer is considered to be extremely rare, and hormonal effect in this regard seems to be poorly understood.

* - paranoid schizophrenia

The first signs of paranoid schizophrenia usually surface between the ages of 15 and 34, running through a timespan when testosterone is at it's highest. This obvious coincidence with the height of reproductive age, as well as well-established link between testosterone, activity of sympathetic nervous system, psychosis and manias, particularly in susceptible individuals 9 (http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/con ... /156/6/969), as well as sexual frustration and general mental distress in mental asylum patients relieved by castration, leaves no doubts as to the role of androgens in the process of schizophrenia.9 (http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/con ... /159/5/713), 10 (http://www.schizophrenia.com/szresearch ... 01086.html), 11 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/quer ... t=Abstract) 12 (http://bjp.rcpsych.org/cgi/content/full/185/2/173)

V. Cheney, in his 20-year of research edition "Castration: the Advatanges & Disadvantages", writes:

"Removal of those glands which manufacture and introduce the bothersome levels of testosterone into the bloodstream and brain can be a valuable therapy in curing various types of insanity. Detente becomes possible and the individual can know peace of mind when the sex drive is no longer bothersome. If Freud was anywhere near right in his theories, and a great many of our wisest men believe that he was, that the bases of neuroses were sexual in nature, then castration should certainly be a solution. He saw what he called “sexual energy” as the prime mover of the unconscious; and his disciple, Alfred Adler, made it over to what he called the drive for power to overcome inferiority feelings. Both are functions which the male hormones serve. Freud believed that the basic instinct for love and life (called “Eros”) and the instinct for aggression (called “Thanatos”) were fundamental to mental problems. We now know that the male hormones are responsible for these “instincts” and when hormones are removed by castration, the problems usually go away. Up to about 1950, doctors used the castration treatment for at least 60 years in the insane asylums and it usually worked; but sometimes it did not. It would usually work well on most patients whose brains were relatively intact; but sometimes not on those with damaged or diseased brains."

* - laryngal cancer

This, again, has been linked to androgens due to the obvious gender discrepancy, and the presense of active androgen receptors in laryngeal carcinoma cells (similar to that of melanoma and prostate cells). Smokers of intact male gender are almost x 9 more susceptible to this type of cancer than female smokers. Among non-smokers, men are still predominant. 13 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/quer ... uery_hl=20), 14 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/quer ... uery_hl=20), 15 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/quer ... uery_hl=20), 16 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/quer ... uery_hl=20), 17 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/quer ... uery_hl=20), "smoking" mice - testosterone injections accelerates larnygeal carcinoma

18 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/quer ... query_hl=8)

[Testman (imported)]

Testicular cancer is the most common malignancy in young men between the ages of 20 and 34. 1 This form of cancer is extremely rare in children and elderly men (past 40), wich clearly suggests a role of androgens in the process. If ture, wich it seems to be, this may be of an issue for the intact hypogonadals.

Bullshit. Testicular cancer is common in those ages because those ages are the ages that men's testicles are over-active

I've heard reports of decreased risk of testicular cancer associated with testosterone use. The same with women taking estrogen having a decreased risk of ovarian cancer. The testes become dormant when their function is suppressed (from using testosterone shots, for example) resulting in a decrease in function and also decrease in cancer risk. Also, to clear up another myth, testosterone boosts the immune system. It's one benefit AIDS sufferers have from testosterone therapy.

The only one there is truth to is the prostate cancer. But even then, I've read studies showing the role of testosterone in prostate cancer to be minimal.

[Eunuchist (imported)]

Bullshit. Testicular cancer is common in those ages because those ages are the ages that men's testicles are over-active

And produce a lot of testosterone.. Well, perhaps. But one can probably safely assume that even if the increased testicular activity is the cause, for instance if the increased spermogenesis has a role, and may contribute to the DNA damage of tubuli seminiferi, then endogenous testosterone (or some of it's compounds) may very well be a contributing factor.

I've heard reports of decreased risk of testicular cancer associated with testosterone use.

Then cite them, please. On the other hand, if this is true, then perhaps the exogenous testosterone, wich is known to suppress testicular function (many HRT users report shrinkage of testicles), may be shutting down one of the several other androgenic chemicals usually produced by testicles, wich otherwise may have been contributing to the cancer risk.

The same with women taking estrogen having a decreased risk of ovarian cancer.

Uh, hello?

Postmenopausal women who use estrogen replacement therapy (ERT) for more than 10 years may be have twice the risk of dying from ovarian cancer as their peers who did not take ERT.

http://www.mercola.com/2001/apr/4/estrogen.htm

Estrogen hikes ovarian cancer risk

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3076876/

Ovarian Cancer Risk May Increase with Long-term Use of Estrogen Replacement Therapy

http://www.cancer.org/docroot/NWS/conte ... e_with_Lon g_term_Use_of_Estrogen_Replacement_Therapy_.asp

Study: Estrogen increases ovarian cancer risk

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/HEALTH/con ... r/?related

The testes become dormant when their function is suppressed (from using testosterone shots, for example) resulting in a decrease in function and also decrease in cancer risk.

This, however, may be a plausible explanation, and merits further research. However, I still believe testosterone, like estrogen, has a role in the process.

Also, to clear up another myth, testosterone boosts the immune system. It's one benefit AIDS sufferers have from testosterone therapy.

This is absolute non-sense. All of the major studies on animals as well as evolutionary theories and epidemiological observations are in firm agreement that males, under the influence of male hormones, suffer from a weaker immune system, and are susceptible to more parasites and diseases.

In addition to the link of CNN's coverage that actually suggested anti-androgen therapy for AIDS patients (an assertion that was based on laboratory research, btw), here's some more data to review:

Testosterone may impede immunity

When testosterone is removed, the immune cells come back strong and aggressive, ready to attack. Says Dr. Kwon, "They become twitchy, very reactive, and in this state they can, in fact, mediate a strong immune response -- which, as physicians, is just what we want."

http://www.news-medical.net/?id=6138

Testosterone emasculates the male immune system

http://www.nationalreviewofmedicine.com ... 05_23.html

Mayo Clinic Researchers Discover One Mechanism for Why Men and Women Differ in Immune Response

http://www.mayoclinic.org/news2004-rst/2499.html

Could parasites undermine the mighty male?

http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/heal ... 681808.htm

Hypertrophy of the thymus and restoration of immune functions in mice and rats by gonadectomy.

http://www.arclab.org/medlineupdates/ab ... 85623.html

Regrowing the Thymus gland by chemical castration - interview with professor Richard Boyd:

http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/s725898.htm

The only one there is truth to is the prostate cancer. But even then, I've read studies showing the role of testosterone in prostate cancer to be minimal.

It may be minimal because the largest study on male HRT and prostate cancer ever done, was a 3 year follow up only. However, consider this recent study (2005), wich actually shows testosterone use increses the risk:

Testosterone treatment linked with prostate cancer

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u ... _cancer_dc

We have seen that studies on estrogen and ovarian cancer revealed that the cancer risk actually doubles - but only after 10 years of use. Untill this time, the risk is almost non-existant. This is how hormones work; it takes time, sometimes many years, before all of the effects set in. Individual and genetic variation further regulate and influence these changes; that's why some males never develop prostate cancer or go bald, without being hypogonadal.

Btw, as to the other effects, just because you dislike the possibility of their reality, and are unwilling to read my post, doesn't make them untrue. As I have cited, studies done both in vivo and in vitro revealed that testosterone stimulates certain parts of melanoma and laryngeal cancer cells. It's a fact - that's why men are more prone to these cancers; that's why men develop later and more malignant forms, and are more likely to die of it.