Watching Seinfled depresses me. The commentators on the DVD version keep commenting on how dark the humor of the series is. That is a fair indication that the characters are Republicans. Republicans depress me.

I began watching the Woody Allen Anything Else movies to clear my spirit, but I returned to watching the Seinfeld series.

Thanks, Old Softee. You're restored to my list of witty beloveds.

Jane Says, what you say would have been true 50 years ago, but we're improving as the old, reflexively left, generations die off. Jewish immigrants were Democrats because, back in the day, Democrats were the party which welcomed immigrants and minorities in return for their block votes. (Republicans were usually nativists.) Now that most Jews are no longer immigrants or the children of immigrants and are fully integrated into American life, the Democratic Party is just a habit. You know - "My parents voted Democrat; I've always voted Democrat, and it'll be a cold day in hell before etc., etc."

Charity is central to Judaism, and, to many Jews, the government looks like a bigger United Way. Jews want to "help" and to make the world a better place, which makes them suckers for feel-good ideas, even if those ideas can't work.

Most Jews are just starting to notice that most of the evil Jew-haters and Israel-bashers are "liberals." What's also made a big dent is that George Bush is the best friend Israel has ever had in the White House, while Democrats have been cozying up to the terrorists who murder Jewish children. But not to fear - Jews, though reputed to be smart, are waking up only slowly, so "liberals" will be able to exploit them for years to come.

Seinfeld is a stinking comedy.

There is not two bits worth of politics in it. It is stupid because stupid makes you laugh.

You know, Carroll O'Connor was the most Liberal actor that one could hope to meet. Archie Bunker was...well, a bigot to end all bigots.

You must remember that these folk are all actors. They can be whatever they need to be at the time that they need to be it.

Just because they behave a certain way in a sit-com doesn't mean a damned thing.

In many ways politicians and preachers are the same. You think that you can trust them because either they behave in a certain way or you expect them to behave in a certain way. Sometimes they do and sometimes they don't.

They are no different that the rest of us. Look at the difference between Jerry Falwell and Jimmy Swaggart.

Don't ever expect too much and you will never be disappointed.

However, I suspect that your assessment of the Republican party and its tight connection with the religious right is correct, and it is from that connection that the unconditional support of Israel, Jews and Judism springs. Most if not all fundamentalist Christians believe that Jews are still God's chosen people. That can never change.

George W. Bush is connected with fundamental Chrisitanity. The Al-Qaida made a gross underestimation of the response of America to terrorism and the capacity of George W. Bush to mobilize Americans.

This is not to say that a Democrat would or could not have done the same thing, it is simply saying that George W. Bush was underestimated and improperly assessed by a bunch of ignorant bastards. They may be intelligent, but intelligence and ignorance are not necessarily incompatable.

As long as the Republicans stay in control, Israel doesn't have to be the bad guy in the Middle East. America will be.

I hope that you all get my drift...

A-1

A-1, I don't recall saying anything about a "tight connection" between Republicans and the religious right. The religious right is but one of many Republican constituencies, and no serious commentator has suggested that it is the most influential. I believe the Bush administration's support for Israel has a simpler explanation: after 9/11, most Americans recognized that Israel, just like the United States, was the target of the hatred and violence of Islamic terrorists. Those who had been indifferent to Israel's plight before 9/11 saw that the United States and Israel were now alike in every salient respect. Both are democratic, secular, and pluralistic; committed to science and the free market, and both incur the hatred of Islamic fundamentalists. Those with the same enemies become friends, and that strengthens the alliance between the United States and Israel.

What do you imagine will happen if Democrats regain control? Bill Clinton came to see Arafat for what he was and publicly rebuked him for throwing away the Palestinians' chance for peace and statehood. Do suppose that any Democratic administration will embrace Hamas? Hezbollah? Al-Qaeda?? It's only the human debris on the bottom of the left who could think so. No Democratic candidate for president will adopt such a policy, because they're sufficiently informed to know the truth about the "freedom fighters of the Palestinian People."

If you need to understand the difference between Israel and its enemies, just do some research on the following questions: what percent of Israel's citizens are Palestinians? How many Palestinians occupy senior positions in Israel's government and military? What are the political and legal rights of Palestinian citizens of Israel? If so many Palestinians still live in Israel and enjoy the full rights of citizenship, who are those in the "refugee camps" - how did they come to be there? Why are there still "refugee camps" almost 60 years after Israel's founding - why haven't these Palestinians been absorbed by the countries where they live? Now, how many Jews lived in countries such as Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, Iraq, etc., before Israel's founding? How many are there now? What happened to them? If a Jew lived in these countries, what legal and political rights would he enjoy? Do the political organizations which have represented Palestinians plan to live in peace with Isreal? Has the PLO ever amended its charter calling for the total destruction of Israel and its people? When did Islamic fundamentalists start killing Israelis - was it just recently, in the "intifada," or was it in the 1940s? Is there any peace proposal, short of suicide, that Israel has yet to make to the Palestinians? (Full statehood and Israel's return to its pre-1967 borders was offered by Ehud Barak and rejected by Arafat because he was unwilling to formally recognize Israel's right to exist. So who is it that perpetuates the "refugee camps?")

Well, A-1, when you have taken the time and trouble to learn all this history, and more, then you say what you want. Until then, statements such as "

A-1 (imported) wrote: Wed Jun 01, 2005 9:33 pm As long as the Republicans stay in control, Israel doesn't have to be the bad guy in the Middle East. America will be. I hope that you all get my drift...

" will have the same stink as a Mississippi lynch mob on a hot night.

Blaise (imported) wrote: Tue May 31, 2005 7:47 am Manhattan is the red state part of a blue state, just as Baton Rouge is the blue state part of a red state. That should make everything perfectly clear.

Jerry wears expensive sneakers, which we can assume must be made by small children in fourth world countries. No good Democrat would wear those sneakers.

Elaine is opposed to smoking. That sounds like a Republican trait. President Kennedy smoked cigars. President Clinton smoked cigars. I have never seen President Bush smoke.

George would never volunteer to join the army. He probably waited to be born too late to fight in the Vietnam War.

Donald Trump is the model for Kramer. I doubt that Mr. Trump votes for Democrats.

I was a Republican when we were a minority. Senator Goldwater was never mean spirited. Republicans used to be kind people, at least when I was one.

Republicans use to be kind people, not like the Republicans we have today. The only time I remember Republicans this way was when McCarthy was in power in the early 50's.

It was wrong then and its still wrong today.

River

A1, I agree with most of your last post, as a matter of fact I was thinking of Archey Bunker before I read your responce.

I dont agree with you on Isreal, This hatred goes back several 1000 years, before Ali climed the mountain. What is going on now in the history of the world will be nothing more than a foot note.

Do we continue to support Isreal, YES

There is no other position that we can take.

River

Riverwind (imported) wrote: Thu Jun 02, 2005 8:10 am A1, I agree with most of your last post, as a matter of fact I was thinking of Archey Bunker before I read your responce.

I dont agree with you on Isreal, This hatred goes back several 1000 years, before Ali climed the mountain. What is going on now in the history of the world will be nothing more than a foot note.

Do we continue to support Isreal, YES

There is no other position that we can take.

River

Amen, brother amen. We can struggle with the quest for peace, but we have to support Israel. Even if the proper place for it ought to have been Barvaria!

bobov,

Sorry that you were offended. Apparently my 'drift' drifted a little farther than I intended.

I understand that Jews have been victimized for years and years. The current situation in the world would tend to see this condition to continue, were it to be possible. Given, the Inquisition victimized both Jew and Muslim in historical times and such was the case with many groups in the modern times, Nazis, KKK, etc. The point is that some group has always been after the Jewish people. Of this fact there can be no dispute. The reason is not as important as the observation, because it has been predicted.

However, those past days are history. Still, it seems that always a new group seems to arise to practice anti-sematic violence. Now is a group here, tomorrow it will be another group there. Some know the end to this story. Some do not seem to care.

However, these latter days are the ones that have seen Jews restored to the traditional land of Israel.

This is very, very significant in the scheme of things, I think. Not all recognize this significance and see this as just another conflict similar to the European conquest of the Americas or perhaps the colonial period of Europe in the world. What we see today is not that. It is unique, different.

Decidedly, Israel is unique among world nations today, arising like a Phoenix, from its own ashes in modern times to become a power in the world to be reckoned with.

A-1

A-1, Sorry you were offensive. But you meant to be, you just didn't consider that you were writing in "mixed company." You continue to offend, and though I sigh at the need to explain why, I'll try.

Many people hate and fear eunuchs, gays, transsexuals, etc., because they are different and because they are a weak minority. That means they can be singled out and safely persecuted by the many who enjoy persecution. Many people have hated and feared Jews because they were different and because they were a weak minority. That meant they could be singled out and safely persecuted by the many who enjoy persecution. Notice any similarity? It's extraordinary to me that I need to point this out at the EA.

You say "t

A-1 (imported) wrote: Thu Jun 02, 2005 4:57 pm he reason is not as important as the observation, because it has been predicted.

" Well, the reason is important, because bigots like to say there must be something wrong with eunuchs and fags, otherwise so many people wouldn't hate them. Some people say the same thing about Jews. That's how bigotry becomes a respectable tradition. "It has been predicted?" By whom? What are you talking about?

You say "some know the end to this story." I don't. Please tell me. If I had to guess, I'd say that, having survived almost 2,000 years of vicious assholes of every sort, Jews will continue to survive, and that they'll be facing heaven on the day that Satan wipes his rear end on the throne of St. Peter. What do you think? If I'm wrong, why do you pray to a rabbi?

Some "

A-1 (imported) wrote: Thu Jun 02, 2005 4:57 pm see this as just another conflict similar to the European conquest of the Americas or perhaps the colonial period of Europe in the world.

" Well, since the Jews are restored to their own country, how could Israel represent conquest or colonization? Are the Indians conquerors or colonizers of America? They killed many pioneers - was this oppression? Jews never left Israel - they lived there continually from biblical times to the present day. They were eventually conquered and colonized, but that doesn't lessen their claim to their home. Now the conquerors and colonizers complain that they've been dispossessed - of what wasn't ever theirs.

You mention the long, long history of Jews being persecuted. Well, if Israel had existed as a Jewish state, if Jews had had a home, just like everyone else, they wouldn't have spent millenia as persecuted strangers in other peoples' homes. That's why Israel was created after the Second World War.

Those who complain of Israel's policies in the "occupied territories" forget that these lands were used as platforms to launch the planned destruction of Israel in the 1967 War. After the War, Israel punished and disarmed the would-be genocides by taking the land - part of biblical Israel - that had been used to threaten Israel. Remember that, within its original borders, there are only 2 miles between the Arabs and the sea at Israel's narrowest point. Confronted with the implacable murderous hostility of its neighbors, Israel did what it had to do to secure itself. What would you have done? Now, people with short memories forget the threat the Arab armies once posed to Israel, and, because the Arab military has been inept, accuse Israel of being a bully!! Apparently, Israel can choose between moral perfection, i.e., national suicide, or being caricatured as a bully, i.e., securing its existence.

Jews and Israel are going to stick around, A-1. If "liberals" doubt this, it's one more reason for them to continue to lose elections. If you get my drift ...

bobov,

The prediction, without looking it up, it goes something like this, paraphrased...

"...Israel will be downtrodden under the feet of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled..."

also...(again, paraphrased, regarding the Jews)

"...that nation that blesses them I will bless and that nation that curses them I will curse..."

Yeah, it's prophecy.

...and...I get your drift.

Gay's don't bother me, either. O.K.?

A-1