Spironolactone combines best with [...]

[Christina (imported)]

Ok, I would agree that taking the medication for that length of time should have been more effective to some degree. Without any other medication, or hormone, you might have to raise the dose to 400mg a day for the Spironolactone to be effective as a castration drug without the feminizing effects.

Perhaps, in my case,

it is the combination of the two

which is the key factor for chemical castration and feminization. Estrogens alone can (in a high enough dosage) cause chemical castration, but can be dangerous at those levels. That is the reason for adding an anti-androgen; to reduce the intake of estrogen to a safer level.

I was already up to 8mg a day of Estradiol for over a year or longer before my doctor upped my dose of Spironolactone to 200mg a day. Weather or not that made a difference (I don't see that it would), I'm not sure.

I also tried Propecia along with my HRT with little or no success.

[spirono13 (imported)]

I have been thinking for a little while to ask my doctor about dropping the Propecia and increasing the dosage of Spironolactone. Since I am taking anti-androgens any way, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to use Propecia.

Regarding castration and feminization, I am a heterosexual male and happy to be so. While chemical castration is something I find interesting, surgical castration is definitely out of the question for me. Even so, the concept of a (much) more feminine image has always been in my mind since childhood. In the past couple of years I've been moving fast and in that direction, so that is the main reason that prompted me to start this thread.

So I just placed an order to add a little "spice" (Estrofem) to my cocktail. I will start with 2 mg/day for a few months, and we'll see how that goes.

[awen (imported)]

I have one friend who happens to be about 6' and on spironolactone and estradiol. She claims she took only 2 mg estradiol per diem and 100 mg spironolactone per diem for about 6-7 years and has been post op for about 5. She's managed to get up to a C cup despite the apparent low dose.

YMMV with dosage since some will require tons of drugs (e.g. Christina) while others will thrive with minimal intervention.

awen

[spirono13 (imported)]

That is good to know, Awen, thank you. I am a big fan of scientific methodology, so I thought it'd be a good idea to start documenting things as I start taking taking the new medication, just like I did previously when I started with Propecia and Spironolactone.

I think if I check weekly on weight, body hair, penis size and bust/waist/hip proportions, I should be able to know if the estrogen dosage is working after, say 6 months. Does that sound reasonable or am I missing something?

[Erika28 (imported)]

A few things to add based on the previous posts:

1) Spiro alone can induce feminization. A side-effect sometimes reported from the use of this drug is gynecomastia, especially at doses higher than 100mg. Spiro will reduce production of and block testo, modifying the ratio of estrogen/testosterone. This alone would bring about some mild feminization (i.e. gynecomastia). Plus, it is also known to increase the rate of aromatization (aromatase) of androgen into estrogen (from Androstenedione to Estrone; from Testosterone to Estradiol). This would bring added feminization.

2) Estrofem taken sublingually (i.e. under the tongue) allows some estrogen to pass directly into the bloodstream without having to go thru the liver first before reaching the bloodstream. Less strain on the liver, less stimulation of estrogen receptors in the liver & therefore less risk of DVT. More estradiol in the blood & reaching your receptors since estradiol is extensively metabolized by the liver where it is transformed into estrone, a weaker estrogen (approx. 12X weaker) with lesser effects on receptors and tissues. Sublingual is safer and more effective.

3) Awen's post just shows you that a low dose CAN also work but might just take more time. Patience is key. Female puberty lasts about 7-10 years; sometimes we forget that...

Erika

[spirono13 (imported)]

That is a lot of good information, Erika, thank you. I did check for signs of gynecomastia since I started taking the Spironolactone 2 years ago, long before I started actively looking into feminization at a hormonal level. In two years, never developed gynecomastia, and the effects of the medication on the sexual function didn't go beyond slightly affecting spontaneous erections.

I am not too surprised because I have a history of fast metabolism with other medications (i.e. pain killers). I tend to need x2 or x3 times the regular dosage for the meds to do anything (even just a headache), and the effects wear off much faster than on the average person.

I will remember to take the Estrofem sublingually, though. That was a great tip.

Thanks again, Erika

[spirono13 (imported)]

Interesting experience. Spontaneous erections are 100% gone on the Netherlands, but what is described as breast tenderness is the understatement of the year. Plus I hadn't heard of the 24/7 nipping either...