Ulysses (imported) wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2004 10:30 pm The reality is that the SoC implicitly advocates a "one size fits all" approach to transsexualism / gender dysmorphia, yet we are all different and have different lives to lead.

- Logic / viewing desire for forms of TG treatment in a logical manner ........ I also agree that we shouldn't only look at these things logically for it is unlikely to make logical sense for a biological man to see to undergo GRS and / or other feminisation surgery (or, vice-versa, in case of FtM transformations). However, I believe that there is a need for the individual to fully think through the ramifications of the treatment that they potentially want to undergo i.e. the potential differences of fantasy versus reality and the fear that someone has a life-long regret through trying to fulfil a fantasy.

Just my thoughts,

Ulysses

Thank You Ulysses,

You have put into sharp focus for me something that has been troubling me for a long time about the SOC. I see the need for some thing like the SOC but on the other hand it the very words "Standards of Care" does imply a certain uniformity which I worry may not include me as suitable fro GRS or HRT. I also agree that GRS and HRT are not to be taken lightly. Ditto for castration. There just aren't any do-overs when it come to changing your body.

I would advocate an educational approach by counselors and a basic battery of test to determine that a person is aware of the ramifications involved and is mentally fit to make such a decision. However this would require that having gender dysphoria would not disqualify a person as being mentally fit.

Regardless of the advances in treatment today I suspect that a lot of the medical establishment look on gender dysphoria as a mental defect. Something to be cured by surgery and treated by hormones and therapy. I am rather suspicious that when they see some condition not yet classified they are not inclined to think "this guy is a nut"

As far as I'm concerned folks who think they know every thing there is to know about people, just don't realize how much more there is to know........but I could be all wet.

Jema

jemagirl (imported) wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2004 11:36 pm Regardless of the advances in treatment today I suspect that a lot of the medical establishment look on gender dysphoria as a mental defect. Something to be cured by surgery and treated by hormones and therapy. I am rather suspicious that when they see some condition not yet classified they are not inclined to think "this guy is a nut"

Jema

I agree that much of the medical community view gender dysphoria as a mental health issue ........... but, then again, in reality alot of people who display symptoms of gender dysphoria also appear to have related behavioural issues. Similarly, others with mental health problems sometimes wrongly attribute their problems to gender dysphoria. It may sound selfish, but these occurrences can make the availability of treatment for others much more difficult and inflexible.

Surgery and hormonal treatment are not necessarily the correct approach to all those with gender dysphoria and some transsexuals have unrealistic expectations of surgical outcomes ....... but for a significant proportion, this type of treatment is preferable to all other possible alternatives.

Ulysses

Ulysses (imported) wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2004 2:43 pm I agree that much of the medical community view gender dysphoria as a mental health issue ........... but, then again, in reality alot of people who display symptoms of gender dysphoria also appear to have related behavioural issues. Similarly, others with mental health problems sometimes wrongly attribute their problems to gender dysphoria. It may sound selfish, but these occurrences can make the availability of treatment for others much more difficult and inflexible.

Surgery and hormonal treatment are not necessarily the correct approach to all those with gender dysphoria and some transsexuals have unrealistic expectations of surgical outcomes ....... but for a significant proportion, this type of treatment is preferable to all other possible alternatives.

Ulysses

There is nothing in what you have written that I disagree with. In regard to folks who

Ulysses (imported) wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2004 2:43 pm wrongly attribute their problems to gender

dysphoria and instead suffer from some other condition, they are indeed a minority. I believe they are best served when treated for those conditions from which they actually suffer. It does not serve these folks in the least to deny treatment to other folks who really want and need treatment. Thats why I advocate a specific battery of test to determine if one of these "known" conditions is present at which point a determination can be made as to what treatment is called for.

The more serious issue is related to unrealistic expectations of what is possible with HRT and GRS. That is why I advocate counseling to help separate fact from fiction. Once a person is determined to be of "sound mind", and has received counseling on the available treatments and courses of action, they should be aloud to make an informed decision as to what course of action best meats their needs.

I only want to make the point that the system in place now seems to require that candidates perform a series of feats jumping through hoops to the satisfaction of an elite medical establishment which by in large has preconceived notions of what a proper man or woman is.

I must say however that the last time I read the SOC there did seem to be a growing recognition of the complexity and variation of sexuality and gender. In fact I almoast saw my self there. Never the less the emphasis still seems to be "Prove it to me". I advocate the approach of "Once you know I am an adult of sound mind making an informed decision please treat me like an adult making an informed decision"

Now for a bit of honesty on my part about my self. I do have a prejudiced point of view about the medical establishment, and I lean toward the negative as if that weren't obvious . Any way there is no doubt that prejudice comes from my experience dealing with the medical establishment.

I have had a great deal of experience being put under the microscope as it were by well meaning individuals who were truly dedicated to helping me cope with my dyslexia. I know their harts were in the rite place but several of them did as much harm as good. The saying "once burned twice shy" applies here. So as I continue my journey to reach my ideal state of being or as close as I can get to it in this life time, I find it difficult to reach out to and trust the establishment. I try keep an open mind though I must admit I find this very difficult, but thanks to Christina and you as well as many others here in the archive I am beginning to regain that trust. That is largely do to the openness and willingness of people to share their stories and experiences.

Jema

Jema let me be the first to tell you that your new avatar is just beatiful your well on your way.

I for one like it

I really want to thank cdejours for all his help. And, to Ulysses and Jemagirl, thank you too for your very thoughtful messages. This board is such a wonderful lifeline.

And, sag111, I agree. Jemagirl's avatar shows her to be a stunning beauty.

buzz

sag111 (imported) wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2004 4:51 pm Jema let me be the first to tell you that your new avatar is just beatiful your well on your way.

I for one like it

Thank You Sag.

I apreciate your saying so.

Jema

i like your Avatar too, Jema. i nearly fell out of my chair when i saw it. you have a lot more courage than i. i have often felt somewhat transgendered but i do not fit in either the "male" or "female" roll at all. i am in the middle. there is no place for someone like me in society. There is no mental health catagory i fit into. i am simply androgenous. i have no desire to be male, but no desire to be female either. i guess that is why this site is here.

surf_toad (imported) wrote: Sat Mar 27, 2004 5:22 am There is no mental health catagory i fit into. i am simply androgenous. i have no desire to be male, but no desire to be female either. i guess that is why this site is here.

There is always a place for everybody. What is your desire?

Mac is right. Society tells you that there is no place for you, because it uses the imposition of phony standards of masculinity and femininity, to control people. In a sense, you may have no place in society, but you do have a place with people who will accept you as you are, if you only take the trouble to find them.

surf_toad (imported) wrote: Sat Mar 27, 2004 5:22 am i like your Avatar too, Jema. i nearly fell out of my chair when i saw it. you have a lot more courage than i. i have often felt somewhat transgendered but i do not fit in either the "male" or "female" roll at all. i am in the middle. there is no place for someone like me in society. There is no mental health catagory i fit into. i am simply androgenous. i have no desire to be male, but no desire to be female either. i guess that is why this site is here.

Hello, dear.

True, our society seems to think (incorrectly) that gender is binary. It is really a continuum, and there are people who are very much in between genders or the "two" sexes.

Although legally, in most places, we must select the "M" or "F" box, I think that you can be whatever you feel that you are. Androgynous is just fine with me, and it is fine with other people, too.

An Australian person recently was able to have their sex listed as "X" on their passport, legally signifying the person to be neither sex. And I have seen questionnaires that ask, for sex, "Male__ Female__ Other__."

I hope that you can feel free to be yourself.

Hugs,

Kelly

born "male," presently female, and lived in the 'tween stage for a long time