evirated (imported) wrote: Sun Jan 04, 2004 3:54 pm Well, for me this "warning" post look very suspicious - first, it is fictional, second - the castration of this guy was done in the most bizarre manner it could - he used the painful elastrator, he cut off his own balls, young and confused.. His ex-girlfirend turned him down, his familiy was some 80% unsupporting and rejecting, full of prejudice. His macho friends were even worse, they turned him down immidiately, and finally, he had a longterm history of depression and psychosis. Curiously, his androgen supplements doesn`t help, he gets even worse after this..

Ahem.

I'll deal with this one point at a time.

- Yes, the story AS A WHOLE is fiction. Every part of it is true, and has happened to different people.

- The method used may sound bizarre to you, but there are at least three currently on this board that have used the same method, I know of five others, and have heard self-proclamed experts tout it as a viable method in the chatroom. It was spouted even more often five years ago. I agree, it's a poor method to use. That does not stop people though.

- "Young and confused" Yes, possibly. In hindsight, at least. At the time, 100% convinced he knew what he was doing, and what the consequences were, as best known at the time. That's a key point. He didn't know depression was a possible consequence. He didn't know osteoporosis was, either. Does that mean he didn't do his homework? No. Talk to the oldtimers on the board, those that were here 5 years ago. If anyone knew these were happening, they weren't talking. For all we know, castration could magnify your chances for breast cancer by a factor of 10. We are in largely uncharted territory, still marking the maps with "Here there be dragons".

- As for what happened with his wife, family, and friends, understand that as much interest as there is here, we are a fringe element. Do not expect everyone to understand when they find out. In fact, it's been many people's experience that even the most tolerant and understanding of people can still be upset by the thought that someone has voluntarily had body parts removed. Look at people who have voluntarily had arms, fingers, or whatever removed. Do they get instant understanding when they tell people? No. What's happening here is no different in most people's eyes.

- The real thing that bothers me. The "

evirated (imported) wrote: Sun Jan 04, 2004 3:54 pm longterm history of depression and psychosis.

" All the story says is that Al had "one or two bouts with depression before I was castrated, but nothing serious." This, to me, does not equal a long history, and as near as I can tell, to read any further history of depression into that statement is to apply a value judgement that may not be supported by the evidence given. As to the psychosis aspect, while I understand where A-1 is using the term, I also agree with him that the desire for castration, even under the circumstances presented in the story, does not constitute a psychosis.

- As to the androgen treatments not helping the depression, there is yet no direct link to testosterone being the substance responsible for the possibility of a post-castration depression. It could be any one of the number of other chemicals produced by the testes. If testosterone is the key factor, then what form of the hormone is responsible? There are different forms, and the form used in HRT may not be the form needed. There is as of now, no way to know.

- Do not consider the post-castration depression aspect suspect. A very large number of eunuchs on this board have experienced it. Including a few with no prior history of depression.

But I tell you this, guys, and this time it`s 100% real:

evirated (imported) wrote: Sun Jan 04, 2004 3:54 pm My castration not only diminished the depression and *especially* my compulsive-obsessive disorder, that developed just after I turned 13, along with puberty - but it also cured my suicidal thoughts and destructive aggression. Finally, I have developed a peculiar sense of general wellbeing that I never experienced before. In my opinion, the only thing that can cause a depression to a eunuch, as it was the case with the fictional guy in the story, is the prejudice from our oh-so-much sex-fixated society - obviously, when all your phobic firends and relatives turn you down, as if you was a scary monster shithead - surely, everyone will develop a depression and suicidal thoughts here. When you feel unwanted and isolated, yea, how else should you react to this? I understand someone`s attempt here to try to inform about all of the sides of castration, but this example is, in my opinion, very poor, fictional and not surprising - the castration for this guy was sudden, and full of complications: There was no Dr. Kimmel to do it "safe, legally and almost painless", nor did he had anyone who could support him and give advice - he was isolated, in pain, rejected and disinformed - what else would one expect?

Cheers.

Congratulations. I am glad your castration cured your depression, and eliminated your suicidal impulses. One person makes a poor case study though, and your experience is not what others have gone through. To extrapolate from your experience to the point of declaring that the "only thing that can cause depression to a eunuch... is the prejudice" is laughable. Hormones are very powerful chemicals that run our bodies on many levels. We don't know everything they do within our bodies. We can't isolate testosterone and say all that it does is give a guy his sex drive. We can't even isolate the testes and say that all they produce is sperm and testosterone.

To call the example in the story 'very poor' and 'fictional' is upsetting, when every aspect is true, with the sole exception of the act of synthisizing many real stories into one character. There are eunuchs that have had friends shun them after finding out. There are eunuchs whose castration has cost them marriages and relationships. There are eunuchs that have suffered crippling depressions after their castration. There are eunuchs that have killed themselves because they couldn't live like that anymore, and didn't see any other way out.

He didn't plan on being isolated. He didn't plan on being alone. He had a wife that supported him (or so he thought), and thought that his friends and family would understand. He was wrong, but maybe he had no way to know that ahead of time?

I am not saying every eunuch will suffer depression. It is a major problem for some, and as we learn more, it is becoming evident that more and more eunuchs do suffer a post-castration depression, at least temporarily.

The prejudice is real though, and I will go out on a limb and say that every eunuch that is open about their current state to others, will have at least one brush with prejudice and intolerance. Just as any other person with a different gender orientation, skin colour, lifestyle choice, visible mod, or any of a hundered other 'differences' is going to run into at least one brush with racism, sexism, prejudice, intolerance, discrimination, or any other negative reaction you'd care to name.

In some ways, you all are lucky Al wasn't religious. Then the story would have likely included him getting excommunicated/tossed out of church.

TO Evirated...and the other side...

Welcome to the ZOO, as Paolo says.

Just out of curiosity, how old were you 2 at castration time and how old are you 2 now..? Inquiring minds want to know... I hope I am not being too curious and straight forward... I may have to change my outlook...

Again, welcome!!

Glad to have you here and it is good to hear from you and the other side for twice...er...once...

A-1

Quite an interesting story, and fiction at that, but will people who read it take away the real meaning? All too often, we hear from him or her on stories of this nature. We even hear from E.A. volunteers say they do not want to read material that ends in violence. Well, violence is what happens when one cuts off testicles in a non-medical setting.

Medical setting is not the end all or be all. Medical setting ensures more than one person has made the choice to cut off the testicles. Is that good? I do not know. Is that bad? I do not know either. What I do know about castration will only benefit myself. Anyone who reads my writing and takes away the true message will benefit as well.

Having read the previous posts I step back and wonder how an individual’s experience with his castration results could be the one and only outcome to this procedure. Many men have undergone castration for various reasons, cancer, perceived overactive libido, want and desire, and on and on. Not all men have issues with this procedure and our society does not have much published experience with castration in young men. If there is documentation, it is not widely known. We know the U.S. Army has more documentation and experiene with testicles than anyone else in the U.S. but I for one cannot obtain that information. My doctor benefits from this knowledge and so do his patients. My cancer issue was resolved by the Army Medical brain trust as my doctor was at a loss.

Today, the E.A. continues the educational process by publishing this story. Will we accept this story with an open mind or will we dismiss it with the notion the plot realistically would not occur? I believe anything will happen when humans are involved. We have the ability to reason and act. Do we act reasonably? That is up to the individual.

As a reader of this board, I take into account all writings archived. You will find a pattern of honesty, boasting and dreaming. One can only experience the outcome of castration for each testicle removed. Once they are gone, the fun begins as the new Eunuch enters his new lifecycle journey. Women have undergone this life changing experience for many years and have the ability to network with others in their situation. Why do men avoid this process? Is it machismo? Is it a learned disability? Alternatively, is it stupidity?

This board has existed for more than the stated five (5) years I have read in many posts of late. Bboy started this board on his Netcom account in the early 90’s. In my book, that is more than five (5) years ago. One must not rely on the registered member birth date (Joined Date) displayed on individual's profile. This board has experienced many technical issues, lost or unrecoverable backups or simply found it too difficult to restore the previous state of the site. Some instances of software upgrades have caused the member registration birth date to reflect altered data. Look at my profile for example and take note of my Joined Date. You will notice 11-18-1999. Now look at the founder of this site (Bboy) and take note of his Joined Date, 12-23-1999.

I have been assured by the volunteers of this site that most if not all possible remedies were exercised to ensure minimal loss of data. Sure data could be lost and we know of these instances in the past but my point is we do not try to lose data. With that said, you have the search option to find writings of interest to your liking. Individually, search on Depression, Experience, Eunuch, Castration, Testosterone, and Final Cut. You will find a wealth of information from many members, Eunuch or otherwise.[/font][/size]

Robby (imported) wrote: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:42 am This board has existed for more than the stated five (5) years I have read in many posts of late. Bboy started this board on his Netcom account in the early 90’s. In my book, that is more than five (5) years ago. One must not rely on the registered member birth date (Joined Date) displayed on individual's profile. This board has experienced many technical issues, lost or unrecoverable backups or simply found it too difficult to restore the previous state of the site. Some instances of software upgrades have caused the member registration birth date to reflect altered data. Look at my profile for example and take note of my Joined Date. You will notice 11-18-1999. Now look at the founder of this site (Bboy) and take note of his Joined Date, 12-23-1999.

I will leave the rest for some other time when I am better able to coherently respond, and make a small comment about this one section alone.

To the best of my knowledge, and to the best ability of my researches to determine, the initial launch date of the Eunuch Archive was on or about Feburary 12, 1997. It was indeed launched by Bboy, but not on his Netcom account, but rather on a Geocities account. True, it did not last long there before being moved (a matter of no more than 3 months, by my research) to his Netcom account, but it did initially start on Geocities. It wasn't until 1998 that BME offered to host the EA, where it has resided until current times.

Sadly, I know of no extant transcripts from the chats on EFnet in ##!Eunuchs that occured prior to the launching of the EA, so I have no way to trace anything back prior to the initial usenet post proclaiming the launch of the Eunuch Archive. This means that if the EA existed prior to the initial barrage of usenet posts, there is likely no way to verify. However, I feel that the initial launch coincided with the first usenet posts proclaiming its existence.

For reference, I have included links to the relevant usenet posts.

Initial EA Launch (http://groups.google.ca/groups?q=%22eun ... 6&filter=0)

EA Moves to Netcom (http://groups.google.ca/groups?q=eunuch ... 00&rnum=15)

EA Moves to BME (http://groups.google.ca/groups?q=eunuch ... com&rnum=2)

JesusA (imported) wrote: Sun Dec 28, 2003 3:20 pm For some time I've suspected--but now I think it is time to collect some real data on the topic--that most, if not all, prostate cancer patients on androgen deprivation also end up on anti-depressants.

Well, according to this (rather famous) TS, there were no problems. As with me, he felt even better after castration:

2FEELING CALM - Four days after my castration I was walking across downtown Philadelphia to meet someone new, and as I walked it seemed that waiting for traffic lights and other little annoyances did not bother me so much. Was this an effect of castration? Six days post castration I returned to work. This workday was unusually hectic becuase it was a Monday and the plant had just installed some new lines but didn't yet know how to run them smoothly. All of this happened while I still felt some pain where the surgery was done, and yet I still felt so calm when the day was all over. I was definintely feeling the effects of castration and most certainly felt better all the time without testosterone. Ten days post castration I felt as a feather floating around everywhere. I just kept feeling better and better. For me the serenity was the strongest of the castration effects, followed by the decrease in libido.

POST SURGERY DEPRESSION? - Many eunuchs who do in fact benefit from castration do experience a temporary depression shortly after their surgery. Many people go through this depression after any surgery. Interestingly I did not experience this at all. I did feel depressed on the fifth day after, but that was because I left Philadelphia that day and was leaving behind several newly met friends, and I usually experience that feeling upon returning home from any overnight vacation. I experienced the same thing five months later when I returned home from a trip to my relatives in Phoenix after meeting some transgendered sisters there, and I also feel this whenever I start driving back home from an electrolysis sessions in Dallas. These post-vacation depressions do feel stronger since my castration, so I think the lack of testosterone does allow more emotion to surface. I never suffered any depression directly related to castration."

http://www.geocities.com/sherrylanina/C ... fects.html

As we can see, this person was fortunate enough to develop a significant level of the well-known eunuch calm. I know of experience that this feeling CAN in some cases substitute Valium when it comes to depression, albeit I never had a post-castration depression in firstplace (do not take HT, either). I also think eunuchs who got castrated as a part of a fetish ritual, sexual fantasy or prostate cancer, are much more prone of developing a depression than someone who chose eunuchism as a lifestyle.

JesusA (imported) wrote: Sun Dec 28, 2003 3:20 pm Indirect data from the transsexual community suggests similarly high levels of depression associated with androgen deprivation. I wonder how many (if any) MtFs are not depressed. The high rate of unemployment and suicide in that community surely fits with that profile, and with Al's story.

It was this I was quoting, not the assumption about cancer patients: just a little correction!

I thought it was a wonderful story. I would be proud to claim it as one of mine, but it is not. I really feel sorry the thread left the intent of the author of this story which was to point out that there is the rest of your life to consider and even if this is what drives our every thought, some of us LIKE ME for example, have this life that gets in the way.

I cannot ever remember being proud of the fact that i am male. I hate it. But with a life, and kids and responsibilities that come along with it, i suffer in silence and live vicariously through the archive. I write my fantasy pieces for the ones that are here lurking and read a few of them myself and spend my nights in the chat room, visiting with a very diverse community that accepts me.

I know who wrote this. I know how close to non-fiction it really is. I also know depression very well (many in here keep me from loosing it more times than I care to admit). The point of this very powerful piece was to bring to the attention of anyone that is curious, that there is a life we must live and decisions we make along the way will impact that life for the rest of it.

I also remember the geocity days very well. That and when Tomas “Smooth” had his page briefly there as well. That is when I discovered that I am not alone. So you ask, why I am still male? Well, read this again and you will understand.

Just a few thoughts on Dr. Wassersug's message:

JesusA (imported) wrote: Sun Dec 28, 2003 3:20 pm Women have twice the incidence of depression as men. Eunuchs, who do not supplement with any hormone, should minimally expect a rate of depression that matches that of women.

Actually, it has been suggested that men have near-similar amount of depression, just that the symptoms manifest differently, and that men are much less likely to admit they're depressed, making such studies more complicated. For instance, increased consumption of alcohol, smoking and overworking "to shut it down" are recognized signs of depression among men. Likewise a testosterone-induced irritability/aggression may also be a sign of a silent depression.

http://www.boston.com/globe/search/stor ... 022398.htm

http://www.healthatoz.com/healthatoz/At ... 112003.jsp

JesusA (imported) wrote: Sun Dec 28, 2003 3:20 pm How do the folks, who speak enthusiastically about the "eunuch calm" distinguish it from simple depression?

Simple. Our life appetite and interest in daily activities remain undiminished (if not increased). Dr. Spector clarified it thus "they report more energy in other aspects of life". I have in the meantime developed an interest for reading and statistical analysis and eunuch calm aid me along to take things easily and think deeper of issues I barely noticed previously. With the development of eunuch calm I feel happier than at any other stages in my life.

JesusA (imported) wrote: Sun Dec 28, 2003 3:20 pm I think I told you that one of the disturbing aspects for me of Gelding's claim about all of the men he has castrated is that all these men seem to have disappeared. If they really do/did exist, where are they now? Dead from suicide? Sitting in front of the TV with severe depression, waiting to die? [Has any eunuch on EA claimed to have been castrated by Gelding?]

By far everyone gives feedback to a cutter. Besides, we don't know about these men's reasons or social status. Some might not be aware of the archive. Finally, just because someone doesn't frequent EA doesn't mean they're down. This zoo of a board isn't neccesary best for everyone - it would be arrogant to assume otherwise. For instance Jeffrey Adams, the famous eunuch assistant of Dr. Spector, doesn't have much to do here as he's interested in a safe, non-sexual, non-pornographic (including vulgar, explicit sexual language) eunuch resource, without flamers and heated debates that appear to be a norm at EA. This link is just one of the many examples:

http://www.eunuch.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=4608

The politics section..

Given that many of the posters here are non-eunuchs and some even come with derogatory, ignorant remarks, it's not surprising some wish to avoid this place at all. In fact I believe eunuchs who are either uncomfortable or (mildly) regretful might be those who frequent here most. This board has, among many other things, a vast experience aiding support for depressed individuals and it's just natural they seek such support and company. For a satisfied non-HRT eunuch it would be painful to read about others who didn't found what they were looking for. An overwhelming 8/2 ratio of HRT eunuchs similarly creates a conflict of interest for these eunuchs (indirect HRT advertizing etc). There are those with a low tolerance level and may be hurt unneccesary. Most of my (happy) eunuch friends (including one well-known here) doesn't bother much about EA for these very reasons. I have also been offended several times by the derogatory attitude of some users.

To put it straight: most menopausals with no health issues would rarely frequent a menopause support group, especially if it constantly stressing it's side effects. Those already 'done' are more prone to seek offlist encounters with similar experiences.

In conclusion: not all eunuchs might enjoy staying around EA. The participance level (or abscense thereof) is not a clear marker of either regret or happyness - it depends on the individual.

The picture under the avatar is of my girlfriend

I actually found the 'disturbing' story quite arousing. This guy was obviously not very informed. I also think its a good warning, yes.

Unlike this guy with the gun, I am informed about the exact possible effects of castration, and me and my girlfriend have been mutually masterbating about it for 2 years. Ive never said to her or myself that it will solve all my problems. It will just be exciting. I encourage her to cheat on me as it is, and the more I grow to love her, the more it turns me on when she's unfaithful

The thing is, some people get off from something like actual depression. When youve already spent a lot of time in Hell sometimes when your fantasy correlates with it it really doesnt seem all that bad

Be careful there. i personally know the author of this piece. You may think you know, but until you have walked a few miles, you have no idea. a bit of good advice from a few that did this the smart way. You can testdrive castration safely via the chemical rout. You can still be a cuckold and she can still be allowed freedom. But after 6 months or a year, she very well could be gone and you could be, well, relationally challenged. IT DID HAPPEN to him and it could very well happen to you. Do the smart thing and test drive first. the chemicals can be reversed, the snip snip .......

that is where you need to really look deep inside.

Please. do not judge me. i only want to help.