Yup, Thats the site. I think the hospital stay is included in with the surgery. If it wasnt, I assume they would have mentioned otherwise. That site is also connected to this site www.grsinfo.com/index.html This is also the samui clinic. Well if you go over there without a letter then you could try to get one through them, its a chance you take thou if they reject you. I know I can get a letter, you can either try and get a letter here in the USA or over there. Either way I wish you luck. I been thinking about taking a loan out of the bank to fly over there get it done, come back. I havent yet thou because I will have to find a way to pay it all back. Soo Im working on that solution. But you could do that if you have good credit. Borrow a large sum from the bank, tell them its for a small buisness. But we all know it isnt. I have the surgeons number, he gave it to me through email.....I can post it here or give it to you via email?

jameskeen05 (imported) wrote: Sun Jan 26, 2003 4:02 pm Here is what was sent to me:

Nullification (‘Bilateral orchiectomy’

and removal of the scrotum and ‘penectomy’)

under spinal block or general anaesthesia. $2.200 (90.000 Baht)

plus 2/3 days stay in hospital

The above with relocation of the pee-hole $2.800 (115.000 Baht)

We would require a letter from a psychiatrist who supports your request If you are unable to gain such a letter we could carry out our own assessment which entails a visit to a Psychiatrist on the mainland about 1/2 day.

Do you know if that was for a simple penectomy (removal of only the portion of penis outside the body) or a radical penectomy (removal of entire penis including the subsurface ligaments). I will seek the radical penectomy.

I am transgendered, but I seek to remove the penis rather than trying to reconstruct a vagina from it. Since I already have a diagnosis of transsexualism, have already been castrated, been on estrogen for more than a year, and just started my social transition, I wonder if a therapist letter for SRS would qualify for this procedure? As of the end of this year, I will already have been legally and socially Sherry for a full year, and it will take me longer than that to get the funds for this surgery anyway, so I'm sure I could get a therapist letter recommending SRS and present this to the Samui Clinic when I seek penectomy.

Sherry Joanne

Sherry (imported) wrote: Mon Jan 27, 2003 10:43 am Do you know if that was for a simple penectomy (removal of only the portion of penis outside the body) or a radical penectomy (removal of entire penis including the subsurface ligaments). I will seek the radical penectomy.

I am transgendered, but I seek to remove the penis rather than trying to reconstruct a vagina from it. Since I already have a diagnosis of transsexualism, have already been castrated, been on estrogen for more than a year, and just started my social transition, I wonder if a therapist letter for SRS would qualify for this procedure? As of the end of this year, I will already have been legally and socially Sherry for a full year, and it will take me longer than that to get the funds for this surgery anyway, so I'm sure I could get a therapist letter recommending SRS and present this to the Samui Clinic when I seek penectomy.

Sherry Joanne

Hello, Sherry! Hugs!!

You have a very good question regarding what is removed. There is corpus spongiosum past the shaft, and if it is not removed, then it can enlarge during arousal. For instance, here is an example of a person who was born male, but had penectomy as part of her SRS:

http://www.annelawrence.com/arousal.html

Note the effect of the engorgement of the tissue during arousal (and if you think that castration and penectomy prevent arousal, think again--all post-op TS women have had these procedures but can generally get as hot as natal women). This engorgement can occur with a simple penectomy, too.

The Samui Clinic seems ideal for penectomy--they certainly see a need for this and other procedures. I have corresponded with Graham Pelever (the clinic's administrator) a few times a year ago or so, when he wished to post in my SRS group. I felt that he is doing a great service, and allowed it. His clinic is one of the only that openly discuss penectomy. A page is below:

http://www.grsinfo.com/3.html

Where removal of the penis is involved this requires significantly greater skills than the removal of the testes. Advanced techniques of nullfication include severing the 'suspensory ligaments' to drop the penis before amputating it, also to produce a urinary outlet lower down for convenience. A new urinary opening may be made between the root of the penis and the anus, this involves advanced incision and suturing skills.

Such an opening reduces the need to remove more of the penis itself to lower the urinary opening for convenience. During the surgery a catheter is placed in the urethra, where it remains during post-op and healing. A tiny (or large, depending on the exact style of the operation) pee hole remains.

I would think that a letter from a therapist stating that you are sane enough to do this should suffice. If you don't even have that, you can, as has already been seen, have a psychologist used by the clinic in Thailand evaluate you.

Indeed, I had eunuch to female surgery in Thailand with no "letters" from US pshrinks. I was evaluated by their psychologist, Dr. Kim, who accepted me for surgery, and then had an in-person interview at the hospital by Dr. Suporn and Aoi. All agreed that I was an acceptable candidate for genital surgery.

Indeed, the present requirements, which can be seen by going to:

http://srs-thailand.com/SRS.html

and scrolling down, include the option:

For consideration under Condition B (young adult cases), the applicant should:

1. be at least age 18

2. have only gender identity disorder, gender dysphoria, or transsexualism

3. have had treatment with antiandrogens or/and hormones for at least 6 months

4. have lived full-time in the cross-gender role for at least 6 months (evidenced by Identification Documents)

He just asks that you be an adult, sane, be on HRT, and live as a woman--no letters required for this option.

While I have you on Suporn's SRS page, scroll all of the way down, and you will see eight pictures of some of his post-op's kitties. The third one from the left:

http://srs-thailand.com/SRS_depth_2001_10_16.jpg

is me!--I'm a Suporn poster girl.

Back to the subject, I think that it is doable. A penectomy is not unheard of, and several people have had them done (besides the hundreds of thousands of hijra). I think that nullification is a viable option. Some people don't like the male or female or in-between set of plumbing with which they were born and change it. I changed mine, and am much happier because of it.

Thailand seems to be an excellent choice. Also realize that US surgeons can and have done this. Penile cancer exists, and is common enough to cause a number of penectomy procedures to be performed in the US each year. A sane person who wishes this should, and in cases, do have this done here (at a substantially higher price than Thailand).

I wish everybody the best!

Love 'n hugs,

Kelly

Me personally, I think Ill seek out the surgeon in Thailand. I wonder how much money one would need overall to cover the trip and such. I know the nullification with re-location of the pee hole is 5000 dollars, lets say its 800 dollars roundtrip there from the US, then you have to worry about transportation and such.

James--

It sounds like you have a valuable resource in Kelly. She has been to the doctor over in Thailand and can probably answer many of your questions.

Just like myself, she is an archive regular.

Good luck with your change!

Kelly is invaluable.

Listen closely to her.

I hope to learn a lot from her Also, I sent a private message to you Kelly_2

JamesKeen,

Welcome to the Archive. It's clear that you've carefully considered your position and you've asked what are, of course, critical questions. You've received valuable help and advice from some of the active members, and your responses show that you're making good use of the information. I'd like to add some additional points for you to consider along the way.

What I'm asking you to consider will take a little time, but you're still very young and certainly have the time. I can assure you, as someone old enough to be your grandfather, that what looks like a long stretch of time extending into the future will seem like the blink of an eye once you've past it. Take the time to make certain that you've covered ALL of the bases before taking irrevokable action.

First of all, you need to realize that the members of the Archive include those who have made their decision and are happy with it, those considering action, and a host of people who fantasize about it. Those who made the decision and are UNhappy are unlikely to be here. It is good that you have been in contact with Tomas. He made his decision for good, rational, well thought through reasons. Years later he is very happy about it. There are others on the Archive who have been nullified, for a variety of reasons. At least one was even younger than you and is happy still about his decision. Make contact with as many of them as you can and seek their advice and counsel. They can provide information before surgery and support afterward.

There are others, however, who have no voice on the Archive. Those who regretted their decision once it was too late. I know of three such people who were not much older than you when they had simple castrations - all were in their early 20s and thought that they had absolutely rational reasons, though they didn't seek much outside counsel or support. Two have since committed suicide as a result of their regrets and depression. The third came far too close to successfully commiting suicide. YOU are far too valuable to take any action until you've thought through everything and have established the support base that you will need even if your decision is the absolutely right one and you go ahead.

I would strongly urge you to find a GOOD psychological counselor to work with - not necessarily a psychiatrist, but someone who is trained to draw out of you the important questions and help you to find the proper answers for YOU. You may need to search a bit to find someone who will take your serious questions very seriously. The first one you approach is equally likely to react in horror and be of no use whatsoever. It will take a few sessions to make certain that you have asked yourself every question that is really important and that you have carefully thought through to the right answers for you. Having a counselor on board may also be critical for the next step.

Next you need to have a well-established support network before you have your surgery. ANY surgery is likely to be followed by depression - even minor surgery to remove a diseased organ. Depression is a common result even when the surgery is medically required and has the full support of everyone involved. The more major the surgery the more likely the depression and the more severe it is likely to be. You need to have people ready to help you to work through it. Your counselor will be an important member of the team. He will understand the background to your decision and will have the skills necessary to help you.

You also need to have close friends and family you can rely on. Have you told those closest to you of what you are planning? I hope you don't plan on leaning over to your mother at Easter dinner and saying: "Guess what I did last month...." Certainly not everyone needs to know, but you need a handful of people who are prepared in advance. They don't even need to approve of your decision, just not be too shocked afterwards and be prepared to help you when you WILL need someone to talk with.

The surgery will have permanent medical consequences. Listen to Andrew. He is seriously concerned about the health consequences and can help you to prepare for what you will need to do for the rest of your life. Many people are chemically dependant - diabetics, for example - and you will become one. You will need to be concerned about an exercise regime, ample calcium intake, and a host of other things that Andrew can prepare you for. You don't want it to come as a surprise.

AND, keep asking questions here. There a number of very fine and helpful people on the Archive who will try to answer anything you bring to us.

Best wishes on coming to a carefully considered decision that is the right one for you.

Jesus

Just a bit of advice.

We never know what the future holds in our lives.

Sometimes our lives take remarkable courses that leave us breathless and at other times regretful.

So, hedge your bet against your deciision and make a few deposits in a friendly, reputable sperm bank.

You may end up an old Lesbian but still be able to father children...artificially, that is.

It may seem stupid but you do not have anything to lose...er...make that you won't have anything to lose...

A-1

Well, that was surprisingly touching, A-1.