Losethem (imported) wrote: Fri Dec 27, 2002 2:30 pm I thought it odd how the media articles RW posted in that in the same sentence they mentioned his clients as "victims" and then say, "they sought out Bertrang...".

Maybe I'm just nuts, but wouldn't you think that in order to be a victim, something has to be done to you unwillingly? These people sought the proceedures he did.

I think the reports were using the term victim for two reasons. 1: Sensationalism. 2: The legal definition of victim can be interpreted as applying to all of Todd's 'subjects'.

Losethem (imported) wrote: Fri Dec 27, 2002 2:30 pm I would expect that Shannon and BME will probably keep a low profile on this one. Even though he will be personally disappointed at the development, unless he wants to do more harm, it's probably best he lets it run its course. Getting in the way of the investigation will probably not do anything, but if we keep educating the community at large, things will be tolerated and accepted more easily.

Shannon has already issued a general warning to 'batten down the hatches' on his IAM page. Since Todd was very high-profile, both in general and on BME/IAM specifically, it is inevitible that BME will be coming under intense scrutiny over the next little while.

Being at least peripherally connected to BME, perhaps we should take some precautions here as well. Nothing major should be necessary though. It's not illegal to want to be castrated, or to post messages saying the same. Nothing is wrong with talking about what it's like to be a eunuch. However, as always, it's not a good idea to go around advertising, suggesting, or implying that you have, can, or are willing to castrate others.

I don't speak for any of 'The Powers That Be' on this board. But my position is if you want to get castrated, go to a professional.

Want Castration?

Dr Kimmel: 215-563-0847 Fax: 215-563-4881

Safe. Sane. Reliable. Legal.

speaks words of wisdom.

Part of the reason I stay around here besides the neat company and old friends is to try to let people here know when I think that they are out of line and putting this place in jepardy. I have a long history here of doing exactly that. I can remember the EA when it was little more than a site that had a few stories that one could read regarding castration and the like. If you have not noticed some have already tried to entrap this site to shut it down and I am not being paranoid, either.

The true stories in the EA could probably be counted on the fingers of one hand, (unless it has been modified extensively), and most of the reading material is fiction. It is not any worse than any other fiction stories that are accessible via the Internet or other means.

Still, we need to be very aware that this site is probably being watched very, very closely. I am sure that Bboy, Talula and Paolo will not stand for any monkey business or any suggestions that this site would condone or harbor anything illegal.

We just need to above board and keep everything here beyond reproach and all will be fine. Mostly, we need to exercise a little common sense.

A-1

Todd, I have chatted with Todd for several years and yes Todd does push the envelope. Like others have stated it a wonder this hasn’t happened sooner as he does do a show and tell of all his procedures. I guess my reaction to all of this is it was going to happen at some point in time. California has some hard line laws on this and Todd will need a good lawyer.

I don’t say he was right in what he has been doing or wrong.

The true problem is that the medical establishment has its unwritten laws of what procedures it will do and which ones they wont and as long as they don’t do castrations on demand, female circumcisions, etc this will continue to take place. What makes this so different for us is that we know Todd and have chatted with him many times. He is not that stranger in the back room but he is exactly that to every reader of the press that is not into our sub culture.

I know what the answer is and so do we all, if your going to have something done, have a doctor do it.

How many times must this be said?

Final word, Todd if you ever come in and read our board I think I can say from all of us Good Luck.

River

involves pushing limits.

This is a dangerous time for many people. The people running law enforcement are not people who live on the edge. They enforce the rules that define the edge. Obviously, no one is surprised by the arrest.

"

Riverwind (imported) wrote: Fri Dec 27, 2002 10:43 pm I know what the answer is and so do we all, if your going to have something done, have a doctor do it.

"

I perfectly agree with you about going to a doctor to have a 'medical' procedure performed, but surgions do not perform subincisions, glans splits and transcrotals. It is left to 'cutters' such as Todd Bertrang to perform these.

There is no medical reason to have these done. They are procedures for the sake of pleasure and tend to be sadomasochistic in nature. I don't think many surgions would be into it really, as they cut into flesh everyday, I guess it looses its edge after while.

Todd Bertrang was very open about his work and there are numerious pictures on his website and BME, includng clients' experiences. He seemed to have the knowledge to perform these procedures correctly and competently. He provided a safe place where one could realise their deepest desires.

I wish him the greatest of luck in fighting the morons who locked him up.

All the best,

Leon

Leon (imported) wrote: Sat Dec 28, 2002 11:14 am There is no medical reason to have these done. They are procedures for the sake of pleasure and tend to be sadomasochistic in nature.

Ya know, I can say (and honest believe) exactly the same things about the last DD+ breast implants I saw. They were, of course, done by a respected surgeon who makes his quite handsome living with these mutilations ...

http://home.earthlink.net/~imagepool/tomsig01.gif

How long would Todd be in business were he a physician? It seems that he is pushing the limits and definitions of what one can and cannot do. I tend to be on his side.

I had a strange experience last night. I got banned from a site about castrating date rapists. I made a smart ass remark about removing hair, labia, and clits. Now, I know that was silly. However the young woman who banned me, has a private Yahoo ID with a photo of her bare chest (a lovely one--well two) and with her special pet name "slut" listed.

She claims an uncle violated her in her childhood and that she is working to expose him or get him to confess his behavior on her site.

...and I thought that WE were twisted...she should just get on with her life. There is no sense in letting a pevert ruin your life. So if she does get him to confess, then what? She should find a nice guy and be normal just to spite him...

Unrelated subject...

The problem of the thing with Todd is that even if he is not convicted I still believe that he could be sued in Civil Court.

Just look how O.J. Simpson came out. Could happen.

A-1

A-1 (imported) wrote: Sun Dec 29, 2002 10:08 pm The problem of the thing with Todd is that even if he is not convicted I still believe that he could be sued in Civil Court.

Just look how O.J. Simpson came out. Could happen.

A-1

The difference between the two cases is that with Todd, there may not actually be a complainant pressing these charges. (At least, not other than the Medical Board and/or the police.)

So, assuming no one actually complained and requested charges be pressed, all he has to do is beat the criminal charge. The local medical board would be hard pressed to prove damages, or even loss of income. The big problem is, he is so well-known in the community, that he makes a great target for setting an example.

Of course, if someone was dissatisfied and turned him in requesting charges, a civil case is completely likely (and was probably the intent to begin with.) I wonder if he can afford to reunite the "Dream Team"? Can't you just picture Johnny Cochrine telling a jury, "If the labia don't fit, you must acquit!"

have here are category confusions. Todd is involved in a medical procedure, but one that does not necessarily treat a medical condition as such.

This is exactly the same thing as surgery to argument or reduce breast tissue. It has simply not entered into the mores of our culture.

It seems to me that we need to allow people room to experiement with their bodies. This very much has to do with us. For example, if I actually talked somebody into chopping off my penis, that person would probably go to jail. a hospital, or enter probation. It's not a normal thing to want someone to chop off your penis. And I'm not certain that in a normal world I would like having mine removed. However, there is that little light of imagination. What are the chances that there exists some female urologist who happens to share my fantasy--and even more wonder of wonders--happens to find me the object of her attention? Yet, when I have horomones flowing, the idea excites me. Now, what to do?

It seems that Todd is acting on some kind of fundamental right to play that offends law enforcement types, but who does he hurt? Those of us who tend toward a libertarian position on private sexual behavior have some arguments in our favor.

Of course, the centerpiece of the holiday season is for many people watching a performance of the Nutcracker. I suppose there is always hope.