Croctopus (imported) wrote: Mon Oct 21, 2024 12:10 pm This is super intretesting thank you! I guess it's the idea that great soldiers and generals can rise above men with testosterone feels like an extraordinary handicap but your suggestion that the lack of evidence of southern eunuchs being no squeaky wheels in the presence added sunlight and calcium is reasonable. I've learned a lot from browsing the forums so far and for this information I am grateful. I have it in my head that there is an extinct ancient plant like sylphium that they all took to explain the promiscuity among castrati, etc.

I think it was in the non-fiction section, but I've seen a reference that there are supposedly studies that show a present day and recent past correlation between HIGHER ranks in the US military and LOWER Testosterone levels - probably at least partially age related, but still interesting... At least one suggested explanation relates to emotional responses to situations... Testosterone is associated w/ "Reactive / agressive" responses which tend to be immediate and arguably not great for individual survival, though good for 'tribal' survival... Reactive responses makes the caveman jump into the defense against the predator attacking the women, or the soldier jump on the grenade / attack the machine gun nest, etc... Downsides are things like "road rage".

Low T and higher estrogen is associated w/ "strategic" responses like letting the other guy take the hit, or make a longer term battle plan.... At least some of what I've seen about those eunuch leaders is that they were 'strategists' not front-line fighters... Arguably also relevant is that eunuchs in literature seem to have had a reputation for being more sly or sneaky and do long-term paybacks - again strategic rather than reactive responses...

As a practical matter - there seems to be plenty of evidence that implies a lot of osteoporosis among those that lived long enough in the old days - note how many descriptions of the elderly of either gender, eunuch or intact, included 'hunchback'... This is usually attributed to bone loss in the upper back and neck, aka osteopenia and osteoporosis... However severe osteoporosis would not have a big effect on mental function so wouldn't necessarily prevent a general from leading. More speculative, but given the at least partial evidence that eunuchs lived longer than their intact peers (probably barring things that would do in either) then presumably eunuchs would be more likely to get age related conditions like osteoporosis...

WheelyFixed

Here’s a 19th century citation of women eating bovine ovaries as a predecessor to estrogen supplementation. Perhaps the ancients found relief consuming bovine testicles ?

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7334883/

Croctopus (imported) wrote: Mon Oct 21, 2024 3:16 pm Here’s a 19th century citation of women eating bovine ovaries as a predecessor to estrogen supplementation. Perhaps the ancients found relief consuming bovine testicles ?

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7334883/

There are actually certain foods high in phytoestrogens.

Hi,

maybe this guy, respectively his memoirs would be interesting to read:

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filippo_Balatri

There are hints for literature, and his memoirs are maybe even printed:

https://opacplus.bsb-muenchen.de/discov ... o&offset=0

There also seams to be some more information about this guy:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atto_Melani

see also her:

http://forums.eunuch.org/showthread.php ... ght=Melani

I'd believe that the castrati were to a certain extent volutarily cut, so that they evaluated the consequences as acceptable for what to win (especially economically and no physically hard work)

Hi,

much

dadkww69 (imported) wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2024 11:34 am I'd believe that the castrati were to a certain extent volutarily cut, so that they evaluated the consequences as acceptable for what to win (especially economically and no physically hard work)

I'd SERIOUSLY question how "voluntary" the castrati cuttings were... Consider that to become a castrati one has to be cut before puberty, at least in some cases reportedly well before... So I think there would be considerable doubt about it being 'informed consent' even if the kid agreed to go along with whatever Mommy and Daddy asked him to do, or got fast-talked into it... The hard work and economics factors seem unlikely to be a factor to a kid, since they wouldn't be expected to have had to do a lot of hard work, and not much concept of economics.... He certainly would have less than complete understanding of the joys of masturbation, let alone

I'm not an expert, but my understanding is that the decision really wasn't the child's but was instead made by the parents, possibly encouraged by clergy, and the kid then got the snip whether he wanted it or not...

WheelyFixed

Croctopus (imported) wrote: Mon Oct 21, 2024 3:16 pm Here’s a 19th century citation of women eating bovine ovaries as a predecessor to estrogen supplementation. Perhaps the ancients found relief consuming bovine testicles ?

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7334883/

Like Rocky Mountains Oysters? They're not bad, actually.

WheelyFixed wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2024 3:24 pm I'd SERIOUSLY question how "voluntary" the castrati cuttings were... Consider that to become a castrati one has to be cut before puberty, at least in some cases reportedly well before... So I think there would be considerable doubt about it being 'informed consent' even if the kid agreed to go along with whatever Mommy and Daddy asked him to do, or got fast-talked into it... The hard work and economics factors seem unlikely to be a factor to a kid, since they wouldn't be expected to have had to do a lot of hard work, and not much concept of economics.... He certainly would have less than complete understanding of the joys of masturbation, let alone

I'm not an expert, but my understanding is that the decision really wasn't the child's but was instead made by the parents, possibly encouraged by clergy, and the kid then got the snip whether he wanted it or not...

WheelyFixed

Wheely you semen to have overlook that children at very early age were working Ernie of Maine

The Maintaner (imported) wrote: Fri Nov 15, 2024 11:31 pm Wheely you semen to have overlook that children at very early age were working Ernie of Maine

Yes and no.... Children definitely were working, probably to some degree from as soon as they were walking, but primarily they would be working at the behest of, on tasks determined by their parents or other caregivers.(and primarily for the benefit of said parents / caregivers). They were not going out and getting jobs on their own for their own paychecks, etc... Some were apprenticed out to other masters by their parents, with differing financial arrangements, but while the child may have been allowed to express an opinion, the final say was the adults....

In fact, everything I've seen suggests that children / adolescents remained under the direct control of parents or other adults until LATER than our current 'adult' ages (in the US) of 18-21, unless the adult gave consent to a given individual child...

So I don't see it as a very high likelihood that the CHILD was the leading decision maker, though some may well have volunteered for various reasons, good or bad...

Everything I've seen said it was the parents choice in the end - the volunteering kid would stay intact if the parent didn't want him done, and if they did want him done, the kid was going to get snipped like it or not....

WheelyFixed