Hey @seanthomas,

First, I just want to say I admire you for going to the doctor and speaking your truth to him. It is not easy to do. Doctors will complain when patients don't tell them everything and yet doctors can be so difficult to deal with it's no wonder many patients only tell the doctor what they want the doctor to hear.

Also, staying with pharmacists that your trust is a very smart decision.

If you do get estrogen from a source other than your primary care doctor, I'd recommend that you keep your quarterly appointments with the doctor and let the doctor do your blood orders.

Doctors are very used to patients that do things the doctor doesn't want them to do. Patients eat foods the doctor tells them not to eat, they sit in their easy chair instead of exercising, and they take too many over the counter medications. Nevertheless, the doctor will still do a followup three to four times per year which should include bloodwork and an explanation as to what the results of the bloodwork mean.

Yes, you can order your own bloodwork online and have the draw done at LabCorp or another facility. Yet it's not the same as having a doctor keep track of the way all the organs, glands and medications inside you are interacting who can help you stay healthy.

Regarding starting estrogen. Tell the doctor you are taking it. Even if the doctor doesn't want you to take it, it's better that they know you are taking it and can track how it affects your body rather than having the blood results being a mystery to the doctor.

One thought is to start the estrogen first and quickly find a new primary care doctor. I've noticed that doctors are hesitant to stop a medication that a patient new to them in already on. You have a very good reason for being on the estrogen and I think a new doctor might be comfortable leaving you on it and even writing the prescription for it - after all, they would only be keeping you on the medications you were on when you became a patient.

Thank you for sharing your experience.

Every doctor and patient relationship is different and adding in situations doctors are not accustomed to and it can get downright contentious. So, the details and honesty you've shared help all of us. Namaste.

Thanks to all for their input and last night the wife an I spent hours scouring the internet regarding the benefits and risks of estrogen in lieu of testosterone. While most of the medical research has been related to men on ADT, as has been pointed out here a castrated man not taking testosterone replacement is deprived of androgens and therefore "on ADT". Funny how when you compare the risk of TRT to HRT in castrated men the HRT carries far less risk of blood clots and heart issues.

So we have made a decision and I will start on estrogen as soon as my wife gets an appointment with her girlie doctor and a prescription (she previously stopped her HRT). I hate to go the surreptitious route with this but have neither the time nor inclination to go doctor shopping just for a prescription of my own. Since I have my labs from my annual physical last month we have a baseline since a full hormone panel was done. Then like suggested I will find another urologist eventually, declare I am happily and healthfully on estrogen and go from there. If all goes well with the HRT then I will have an argument for remaining on it and get my own prescription. If I am not getting what I think I should from the hormone then I'll stop or adjust.

Now perhaps she hides her concern for the side effects of having her husband on estrogen but damn if she is not supportive and recognizes my over-all health trumps any feminizing effects of estrogen.

Your a lucky man to have such a loving and supportive wife

Chesleyt (imported) wrote: Sat Feb 08, 2020 6:49 am Your a lucky man to have such a loving and supportive wife

Yes, I am and I appreciate it every single day. And I can assure you I married a helluva lot better than she did.

Every time I read something that you say about your wife, my internal voice says what a lucky man you are. It’s obvious the love & bond that you both share. I wish you success going fwd with your new program. I’m rather envious of your situation. You’re about to be opened up to a wonderful world that is estrogen. I wouldn’t worry about growing huge boobs, as that rarely happens with (mtf). Since you don’t have the DHT factory, I can’t offer too much advice, but I’ve only seen a handful of attempts that got beyond a C-cup. 98% of us are stuck at a B-cup. I’ve been growing for four years and sports bras flatten me out. It will take two [plus] years for you to get any real growth. My advice is like others to seek out an endocrinologist. I’m eager to follow your journey, results, etc. Good Luck.

I'm going to talk to my counselor about how testosterone has been effecting me and how being off of it has resolved all my problems and see if maybe the psychiatrist knows anything about this and if so could he write a recommendation letter to the endocrinologist for estrogen therapy. I see my counselor Monday I will let you know what happens.

After the hassle at the urologist my wife made one phone call to her gyno and picked up a three month supply of Climara 50 yesterday afternoon. I put the first patch on last night. I kind of feel like this is a new journey for as soon as I walked out of the bathroom she said "I guess you get to feel what a woman feels now". Well so far this morning I don't feel any different but of course new hormones are just being introduced. Now if I don't like this weekly dosing of estrogen I'll stop and go to plan B. Although I don't feel like a woman this morning, one thing I noticed after donning the patch is that I had the best night's sleep in a long time.

Congratulations Sean. From what I understand, it takes many many months before you see any changes, and then it takes several years before things finish growing. I think it takes a while before you start feeling them, too. I applaud you for your courage here. I know you have apprehensions. I read your latest blog post and on the whole, you truly have a wonderful and incredibly supportive spouse. I wish you all the best going fwd.

Hey seanthomas, glad to see you've taken the plunge. My previous post was too long, but importantly this link supports a castrated male taking estrogen patches

Varys2013 (imported) wrote: Thu Feb 06, 2020 2:11 pm : https://askdrmyers.wordpress.com/2016/0 ... rogen-adt/

On one 0.1mg patch, twice weekly, I felt "pretty good". No hot flashes, fatigue was not too bad, energy was more or less ok. My blood E2 level ranged around 50-60 pg/ml. That's also the recommended minimum to prevent loss of bone density.

Doc suggested for best Quality of Life to try two patches, get my blood E2 to 100-150 pg/ml or so. I've been on that for almost 2 months now, and I feel better than I have in years. I feel great! I am also seeing a little more fullness in my breasts, but I'm willing to take that side effect. Unless my shirt's off, no one notices.

So glad to hear you're on the patches. After a month or so, it might be worth getting at least your blood E2 level checked.

All the best!

SO this very thing is happening, although he was gentle and just said he did not think the insurance would pay, I don't care, I will pay!

So I am going to ask next month, or I'm going to just get the TRT and put it away but overall the OTC stuff is helping as I lower the TRT...