kuramafox (imported) wrote: Sun Jan 22, 2017 8:13 am Thnx prism, you sound like a really cool and level headed person, would definitely hang out with you, maybe smoke/drink or play ps4 lol. Your younger appearance has probably got to do with the lack of Testosterone and subsequent virilization from years of T destruction, pretty cool mayn. I wonder what age you started taking cpa and for what reason. It would be awesome to live a lifestyle comparable to yours, it sounds pretty much like what I have envisioned for myself, in fact I kinda envy you tbh, lol.

I have to go through this route I guess, I am already on finasteride and in a few months If I see no results ]hair and seborrhea wise I will probably switch to Cpa. I sent you a friend request and If you don't mind you can send me your pictures, I'll be waiting. They will be safe with me and I will only objectively view them for a better perspective on the drug.

You are kinda spot on on the gyno part, but it's such a debilitating side effect especially for me. It sucks that there is no viable alternative. Scared of SERMS to be honest. There are many people who live possibly live with gyno and possibly lead normal healthy lives so It's probably a small side effect to bear depending on the person who can tolerate it. In my case I have a strong psychological aversion towards this side. Worst case scenario, I drop Cpa and go for a gyno reduction/Serm cycle,even radiation therapy maybe.

I hate that I'm losing hair to T, hate the acne and the uncontrollable sex drive/urges. From what you have described you suffered no additional gyno on cpa which is pretty positive if I read your reply properly. Your gyno was probably from the bouts of estrogen you took by my guess.

I have a feeling that Cpa is safe, otherwise why would it be approved for sex offenders/ decreasing sexual urges. I'm not entirely convinced atm, still waiting for more people to chime in.

Thnx for the well thought out reply, if you know anyone personally or on this forums who take Cpa do help me out though. Still need more convincing I guess.

So anyone out there on cpa long term, could really love to hear bout your experiences.

Thnx for reading, have a nice day.

Thank you for the kind words, I did notice some similarities between our EA profiles when I looked at yours last night and found it interesting. I'm flattered someone wants to lead a lifestyle like mine, although I certainly hope you face less confusion about what you want to be than I did.

I started off taking spironolactone and estradiol hemihydrate sublingual tabs very shortly after turning 25, so back in Feb. 2014. My dosage was 200mg spiro per day, 4mg estradiol hemihydrate per day. Switched to injecting estradiol valerate at 10mg/week just months into it. I switched to taking cyproterone in late 2014 and have been taking it ever since. I didn't like the side effects of spironolactone, which is why I switched to cyproterone and I definitely think it was a great decision to do so.

The reason I took estrogen was that when I started all this I thought I was MtF transgender. However over time it became clear to me that my issue was actually this: I hated my masculinity, both physically and in how I acted. But it took me a while to truly realize this.

Prior to me starting all this I definitely didn't like how my body was changing in my mid-20's and simply looking in the mirror filled me with dread and disgust. I had started noticing the very beginnings of hair loss, which thankfully was reversed after some time on these meds. I didn't have much hair loss, just the very beginnings of it, so I think catching it early allowed for the reversal I experienced. The hair loss beginning is what made me go "Okay **** this I have to do something right now I can't live like this." Looking back at photos from around that time I had this dead-inside depressed look even if I was smiling. That look is entirely gone now.

After some time on hormones after my body had changed a good deal all of my dysphoric feelings went away, and I found I didn't care about becoming a girl, I just wanted to be cute and non-masculine but was totally fine with remaining outwardly male so long as I didn't look masculine if that makes sense. I never felt a push to wear female clothing or try speaking like one, it even felt weird for me to even try and I didn't like it. All of this body dysphoria stuff is very confusing in my opinion and I didn't really have or know of any resources at the time that talked about things like I was feeling aside from those for MtF transgenders, which lead me to believe I was one, and the fact that I liked what the hormones were doing to me lead me to believe that assumption was correct. It's very confusing stuff IMO. I always hated my balls, hated being horny, always hated masculinity on myself to a large degree, but I felt indifferent about boobs and never felt a desire to present as female. I figured that would come once I had started on the hormones and cast off my "regular dude" mask but it never did. I went from regular dude to effeminate homo-seeming dude in regards to the way I acted and dressed.

So, to continue the tale of how I got to where I am now: still not being sure of myself (or rather being falsely sure of myself and just going with the flow), I continued taking the hormone regimen and kind of just existed as I was not really caring about changing my social presentation aside from no longer hiding my faggy behavior. I did like what they did to me physically, overall. At some point in mid 2015 I ran out of estradiol vials and had to go about a month and a half without. I had plenty of cyproterone though, and of course continued taking it. Once my new vials had arrived and I injected for the first time after that break from estrogen, I realized I actually preferred how I felt mentally without it. I didn't like what estrogen did to my mind and my emotions. Going off of it and then going back on it made me see for the first time what it really did on its own. So I began neglecting my dosage of it. Sometimes I'd inject every two weeks, or once a month, or even more rarely than that. I pretty much quit caring about taking it regularly and would go on-again-off-again with it. I kept not liking it and preferring the feeling of not having it in me. I then dabbled in the oral pill form (oral estradiol valerate) to see how I liked that. The same feelings arose although not as harshly as with injections. I used an on-again-off again low dose regimen with it still. I began to truly realize that I wasn't MtF trans but just had some other version of bodily dysphoria that had been taken care of by altering my body. I do like what estrogen does to my skin and to a certain degree my fat distribution, however I'm neutral about the rest of what it does and dislike what it does to me mentally. Eventually around the end of winter in 2016 I quit taking it all together. I just didn't care to redose and figured if I started not liking what was happening I'd pop some pills again. In October I tried it again for a little bit mainly for the skin boosts and found that I still don't like what it does to my mind, pretty much sealing the deal. The skin changes it gives are nice, but at least as far as I have noticed they linger quite a while going without it. I still have a good deal of residual softness from it. Maybe I will redose again in the future, maybe I will not. I don't really know. But I enjoy this state of oppressive calm (I mean oppressive in a good way) and I am absolutely sure now that I want to continue outwardly presenting as an effeminate borderline androgynous male. It was a long confusing road to get here though.

Now in regards to your case:

If you take CPA and notice gyno developing you wouldn't need to drop the CPA to lose it, you'd just have to add in SERMs. It would be counter-productive to drop the CPA, and pointless, because the SERMs alone would be responsible for getting rid of any gyno that develops.

I'll send you a pic of what developed for me later today most likely. And yes, no additional gyno on cypro, it has only gone down.

If memory serves me, 20% of Cyproterone users develop gynecomasty. I've used GnRH agonists myself (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gonadotro ... ne_agonist). These should have a much more infrequent occurrence of gynecomasty.

SERMs are awesome. I recommend that most men who like presenting as manly men should take them, especially Raloxifene. It provides all the benefits of estrogen like bone density and libido while preventing all feminizing aspects like breasts or body composition. Your natural testosterone will get a serious boost (if you're not castrated) and cholesterol will be improved. There are literally no side effects for men. All the side effects listed are for women who of course get serious side effects due to blocking some aspects of their hormonal expression. It doesn't hurt your liver and will prevent some cancers.

I feel sad when I see young guys with man boobs who don't know about Raloxifene. No one needs to have man boobs unless they want them!

I've taken Raloxifene daily for years. I recommend it. You can get it on online pharmacies without prescription and it is not expensive.

Prismatic (imported) wrote: Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:59 am Thank you for the kind words, I did notice some similarities between our EA profiles when I looked at yours last night and found it interesting. I'm flattered someone wants to lead a lifestyle like mine, although I certainly hope you face less confusion about what you want to be than I did.

I started off taking spironolactone and estradiol hemihydrate sublingual tabs very shortly after turning 25, so back in Feb. 2014. My dosage was 200mg spiro per day, 4mg estradiol hemihydrate per day. Switched to injecting estradiol valerate at 10mg/week just months into it. I switched to taking cyproterone in late 2014 and have been taking it ever since. I didn't like the side effects of spironolactone, which is why I switched to cyproterone and I definitely think it was a great decision to do so.

The reason I took estrogen was that when I started all this I thought I was MtF transgender. However over time it became clear to me that my issue was actually this: I hated my masculinity, both physically and in how I acted. But it took me a while to truly realize this.

Prior to me starting all this I definitely didn't like how my body was changing in my mid-20's and simply looking in the mirror filled me with dread and disgust. I had started noticing the very beginnings of hair loss, which thankfully was reversed after some time on these meds. I didn't have much hair loss, just the very beginnings of it, so I think catching it early allowed for the reversal I experienced. The hair loss beginning is what made me go "Okay **** this I have to do something right now I can't live like this." Looking back at photos from around that time I had this dead-inside depressed look even if I was smiling. That look is entirely gone now.

After some time on hormones after my body had changed a good deal all of my dysphoric feelings went away, and I found I didn't care about becoming a girl, I just wanted to be cute and non-masculine but was totally fine with remaining outwardly male so long as I didn't look masculine if that makes sense. I never felt a push to wear female clothing or try speaking like one, it even felt weird for me to even try and I didn't like it. All of this body dysphoria stuff is very confusing in my opinion and I didn't really have or know of any resources at the time that talked about things like I was feeling aside from those for MtF transgenders, which lead me to believe I was one, and the fact that I liked what the hormones were doing to me lead me to believe that assumption was correct. It's very confusing stuff IMO. I always hated my balls, hated being horny, always hated masculinity on myself to a large degree, but I felt indifferent about boobs and never felt a desire to present as female. I figured that would come once I had started on the hormones and cast off my "regular dude" mask but it never did. I went from regular dude to effeminate homo-seeming dude in regards to the way I acted and dressed.

So, to continue the tale of how I got to where I am now: still not being sure of myself (or rather being falsely sure of myself and just going with the flow), I continued taking the hormone regimen and kind of just existed as I was not really caring about changing my social presentation aside from no longer hiding my faggy behavior. I did like what they did to me physically, overall. At some point in mid 2015 I ran out of estradiol vials and had to go about a month and a half without. I had plenty of cyproterone though, and of course continued taking it. Once my new vials had arrived and I injected for the first time after that break from estrogen, I realized I actually preferred how I felt mentally without it. I didn't like what estrogen did to my mind and my emotions. Going off of it and then going back on it made me see for the first time what it really did on its own. So I began neglecting my dosage of it. Sometimes I'd inject every two weeks, or once a month, or even more rarely than that. I pretty much quit caring about taking it regularly and would go on-again-off-again with it. I kept not liking it and preferring the feeling of not having it in me. I then dabbled in the oral pill form (oral estradiol valerate) to see how I liked that. The same feelings arose although not as harshly as with injections. I used an on-again-off again low dose regimen with it still. I began to truly realize that I wasn't MtF trans but just had some other version of bodily dysphoria that had been taken care of by altering my body. I do like what estrogen does to my skin and to a certain degree my fat distribution, however I'm neutral about the rest of what it does and dislike what it does to me mentally. Eventually around the end of winter in 2016 I quit taking it all together. I just didn't care to redose and figured if I started not liking what was happening I'd pop some pills again. In October I tried it again for a little bit mainly for the skin boosts and found that I still don't like what it does to my mind, pretty much sealing the deal. The skin changes it gives are nice, but at least as far as I have noticed they linger quite a while going without it. I still have a good deal of residual softness from it. Maybe I will redose again in the future, maybe I will not. I don't really know. But I enjoy this state of oppressive calm (I mean oppressive in a good way) and I am absolutely sure now that I want to continue outwardly presenting as an effeminate borderline androgynous male. It was a long confusing road to get here though.

Now in regards to your case:

If you take CPA and notice gyno developing you wouldn't need to drop the CPA to lose it, you'd just have to add in SERMs. It would be counter-productive to drop the CPA, and pointless, because the SERMs alone would be responsible for getting rid of any gyno that develops.

I'll send you a pic of what developed for me later today most likely. And yes, no additional gyno on cypro, it has only gone down.

Prismatic, we have similar goals,aspirations and comparable lifestyles. I love reading about your life mayn, It's kinda awesome how you discovered your balance, if that makes sense,even if you are going with the flow you seem to be happy and thats what matters. I wish I was in that position myself. I have bad anxiety and depression even since I started thinking about my masculinity ever since I was 17 or so, its been pretty rough tbh.

Started on 200 mg of spironolactone likeyou but quit very soon at about one month into it. I too desire an androgynous look, and wanted to block T. I Didn't experience any side effects on spiro but I just freaked out reading the Gyno study. Happy that your Gyno has gone down, positive stuff indeed. It must be awesome living life as an androgynous, gracefully aging human being. The calmness must be liberating.

Btw How long did it take you to grow your hair out and how much were you balding

Jorge2008 (imported) wrote: Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:33 am before the use of antiandrogens?. Have a nice day mayn.

If memory serves me, 20% of Cyproterone users develop gynecomasty. I've used GnRH agonists myself (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gonadotro ... ne_agonist). These shou

ld have a much more infrequent occurrence of gynecomasty.

Jorge2008 thnks for sharing your regimen. I have read into lh and gnrh injections. Unfortunately my knowledge is too elementary on them, but they seem like awesome stuff .

Interested in knowing whether your skin and hair got better on your regimen. Did you get hair regrowth, clear skin?. Guessing from your reply, you probably have no gyno. That's awesome

SplitDik (imported) wrote: Sun Jan 22, 2017 3:58 pm if that's true. Would like to know more about you regimen, do reply if you have the time. Have a nice day mayn.

SERMs are awesome. I recommend that most men who like presenting as manly men should take them, especially Raloxifene. It provides all the benefits of estrogen like bone density and libido while preventing all feminizing aspects like breasts or body composition. Your natural testosterone will get a serious boost (if you're not castrated) and cholesterol will be improved. There are literally no side effects for men. All the side effects listed are for women who of course get serious side effects due to blocking some aspects of their hormonal expression. It doesn't hurt your liver and will prevent some cancers.

I feel sad when I see young guys with man boobs who don't know about Raloxifene. No one needs to have man boobs unless they want them!

I've taken Raloxifene

daily for years. I recommend it. You can get it on online pharmacies without prescription and it is not expensive.

SplitDik, how long have you been on raloxifene,I'm glad you replied here, I have some questions for you.

I read about tamoxifene and one side effect clearly stated thinning of hair if I'm not mistaken. I don't think raloxifene has this side effect from what I read about the drug. Don't know much about SERMs so I have a few questions for you if you don't mind. How is your hair situation going on right now, any worsening or improvement? and what antiandrogen are you taking in conjunction with raloxifene. Glad you avoided gyno, positive stuff mayn.

Prismatic says that nobody he knows taking raloxifene has notices hair loss so I would like to confirm with you too.

Just randomly found this online, SERMS scare me. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4252673/

Also interested in knowing about your skin, acne and seborrhea wise. Thnx for taking the time to share.

Overall, The use of Serms in conjunction with anty androgens seem pretty safe. I don't think I can go through with Serms, they seem too risky hairwise. Still looking for people on Cpa or Gnrh only to chime in, would be awesome to know if you're doing fine with no gyno on these drugs. Have a nice day guys.

Not sure if it sent but I just sent a link to the pic to you kuramafox, should be in your PM box if it worked.

I didn't have much balding at all prior to starting. Just the tiniest amount, just enough for me to notice. I think within 1 year I had seen regrowth. I can still tell where it happened because the hairs are shorter than the rest of my hair, seeing as I haven't cut my hair since before I started taking these meds.

If it's causing you so much anxiety and depression to be masculinizing, and you're wishing you could be more androgynous and live such a lifestyle, jumping on the wagon is as easy as taking the meds. It's an easy fix. The longer you wait, the more damage testosterone will do to your body. If I had a time machine I would love to tell my younger self to start at your age or even younger.

I nearly did start doing this at 18, and that's a pretty big regret of mine. I put it off because of worry about what others might think if they knew (stupid worry IMO), but eventually my masculinization gave me a wake up call I couldn't ignore, the depression, axiety, disgust became too much to bear and that is what finally made me get on the right track. I wish I had realized it could only get worse with test in my system earlier though.

Prismatic (imported) wrote: Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:11 pm Not sure if it sent but I just sent a link to the pic to you kuramafox, should be in your PM box if it worked.

I didn't have much balding at all prior to starting. Just the tiniest amount, just enough for me to notice. I think within 1 year I had seen regrowth. I can still tell where it happened because the hairs are shorter than the rest of my hair, seeing as I haven't cut my hair since before I started taking these meds.

If it's causing you so much anxiety and depression to be masculinizing, and you're wishing you could be more androgynous and live such a lifestyle, jumping on the wagon is as easy as taking the meds. It's an easy fix. The longer you wait, the more damage testosterone will do to your body. If I had a time machine I would love to tell my younger self to start at your age or even younger.

I nearly did start doing this at 18, and that's a pretty big regret of mine. I put it off because of worry about what others might think if they knew (stupid worry IMO), but eventually my masculinization gave me a wake up call I couldn't ignore, the depression, anxiety, disgust became too much to bear and that is what finally made me get on the right track. I wish I had realized it could only get worse with test in my system earlier though.

Yeah, you give sound advice mayn, check your inbox I hope you got my reply. I'm twenty two years old now, wonder when you started on AA's and E. The anxiety and depression seems to be seeping into my dreams lately, I have deep restlessness that revolve around my fear of masculization.As if suffering with these thought's during the day wasn't enough. Got that dead look in my eye in every picture taken too, I am a mere shell of my former self.I am completely socially awkward, intereacting with only a few select close friends and family. I just go to college for the sake of getting my degree even though every single day I just die a little bit inside.

Your right, I need to do something about this, still trying to find the best regimen. Physical castration sounds good in terms of no side effects such as gyno. If only I could get chemically castrated with the same effects as physical castration. Lh and Ghnrh injections seem to be pretty cool so I'll be looking into that. Got my cypro on standby.

Still waiting for more user experiences I guess. Thanks Prismatic, your kindness and guidance is much appreciated.

I started just after turning 25, not even a full month after my 25th birthday.

Whatever you choose to do I hope it works out well for you and isn't too annoying of a process getting there.

I started with Cyproterone acetate around my 23y, i am now 35.

Im still using it today.

When i was 23, my hair also started thinning, sometimes i even got a comment about this.

Today my hair is oke, not how it was when i was 18, fine, not so thin anymore.

Ive gotten gynecomastia in the first half year of use?

I have used it the past tamoxifene its a really great combo with Cyproterone.

The Cyproterone effect is is so good more, and my last T test it was very high.

So I hope this year i can get a surgical fix.

I did develop osteoporosis, so that is the worst side effect.

**edit**

Begin of February i have an appointment again also about my osteoporoses, ill ask about raloxifeen.

So raloxifene stops the osteoporosis from castration, does it also stop the depression, memory loss and other castration side effects?

I was thinking of using CPA for castration and estrogen to clear up the side effects. I don't mind some feminization, but not having gyno would be very convenient.

So I was wondering if I should add raloxifene to the list or replace the estrogen with it altogether.

Fixet (imported) wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2017 9:54 am I started with Cyproterone acetate around my 23y, i am now 35.

Im still using it today.

When i was 23, my hair also started thinning, sometimes i even got a comment about this.

Today my hair is oke, not how it was when i was 18, fine, not so thin anymore.

Ive gotten gynecomastia in the first half year of use?

I have used it the past tamoxifene its a really great combo with Cyproterone.

The Cyproterone effect is is so good more, and my last T test it was very high.

So I hope this year i can get a surgical fix.

I did develop osteoporosis, so that is the worst side effect.

**edit**

Begin of February i have an appointment again also about my osteoporoses, ill ask about raloxifeen.

Awesome man, thanks for sharing your experience on CPA. May I ask you how bad your gyno is?. 12 years on CPA, that's really amazing. Curiosity overload!

From what I have read, don't take my word for it but Cpa has about a 20 percent chance of slight gyno. This is relatively safe according to me but the only fear I have is that it will progress further.

Fixet, it would be amazing if you can send me a private message or link me a picture to what your gyno looks like. Too curious man, especially if it isn't bad, I will definitely start cypro ASAP.

Serms are really bad for hair, They cause hair thinning in women if I have done my research correctly so Serms are out of the picture for me. Sorry about your osteoporosis, perhaps some sort of calcium supplementation will help you out. Hormones are necessary to maintain bone density from what I have read. Really happy you shared your experience, thanks mayn. Hope you could describe your gyno in more detail, It would help me out a big deal. Best of luck with your osteoporosis, I hope they can fix it for you.

Still got my cypro on standby, Just waiting for more convincing. Long term CPA users help me out. Have a nice day guys.