Riverwind (imported) wrote: Sat Dec 01, 2012 8:20 pm You know when I hear something like this coming from a church I always first check my wallet then ask how much is this going to cost. when in doubt follow the money and remember to keep this ministry going.

If you do not pay you Exorcist on time you get repossessed.

Except the repo men have horns.

bobover3 (imported) wrote: Sun Dec 02, 2012 1:07 am Doctors say that as much as 25% of reported illnesses are psychosomatic and may be alleviated with placebos.

Most physicians use mental diagnoses as excuseanoses when they are unable or unwilling to diagnose the true cause of a person's illness. I have watched almost every episode of Mystery Diagnosis http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0478078/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1 and most of the patients were told that they had a psychosomatic illness or that they were depressed before they got a correct diagnosis.

I think of the Age or Reason or Enlightenment as the time when skepticism, the scientific method and intellectual exchange , etc. etc. replaced old traditions and superstitions. Out of curiosity, how many practicioners of logic and reason here believe in life after death? Who doesn't.

It's not a matter of believing in life after death.

It is a matter of believing in "demonic possession" which is not just an afterlife but a specific view of good and evil and heaven and hell and Michael and Lucifer.

Do I believe in a God? yes, in one form or another of the various forms mankind has invented.

Do I believe in a force of evil that has demons possessing and guiding the minds of men on earth? Not unless I'm watching CONSTANTINE or THE EXORCIST on a screen. Are there evil people - yes. Are there mentally ill or disturbed people - yes. Do demons wander the earth possing children and making them not do their homework - that's a laugh.

120 cases a day? Are they even listening to the nonsensical nature of that?

An exorcist should only handle 2 to 4 cases a day? Why don't we license demons like truck operators.

Sorry, this entire "exorcism" affair is nonsense and ignorant foolishness used to fool sheep and scare little children into obedience.

To paraphrase -- it is time to become adult and do things as adults do them. To set aside the childish ways.

At least that IMO (after I threw the hard elbows)...

I am catholic and I didn't believe in demonic possession till I went on the internet and into some forums.

adam may be on to something. --FLO--

bobover3 (imported) wrote: Sun Dec 02, 2012 4:46 am Except

Arab Nights (imported) wrote: Sun Dec 02, 2012 7:45 am the repo men have horns.

...and tattoos...

I think of the Age or Reason or Enlightenment as the time when skepticism, the scientific method and intellectual exchange , etc. etc. replaced old traditions and superstitions. Out of curiosity, how many practitioners of logic a

nd reason here believe in life after death? Who doesn't.

...I still hope for DEATH after LIFE but the way I saw things resurrected on the political board

adam3117 (imported) wrote: Sun Dec 02, 2012 9:13 am (when it existed) dashed ALL my hopes of 'dead things' remaining that way. Things were constantly being du

g up...

I am catholic and I didn't believe in demonic possession till I went on the internet and into some forums.

The consent for the exorcism depends upon a direct observation of the victim engaged in some sort of supernatural activity by Catholic Priests. Then they have to go to their superiors and present evidence to get permission.

I understand that it is not something that is taken lightly...

oh, moi. may I have PERMISSION to laugh now?

I am a citizen advocate for a person who is developmentally disabled. Curtis was talked into going to church with a neighbor. After his third visit they held an exorcism for him. They told him he would not be "retarded" if they could drive out the demon. The neighbors met me and had a better understanding of demons.

Here's the logic, Dave. Those people are living medievel beliefs. Those beliefs were shown to be incorrect by the whole Age of Reason/Enlightenment thing, which certainly changed the world. That Age to the best of my knowledge is built on the scientific method, public promotion of ideas and theories and public discussion of those. Who can argue with running experiments, measuring what happens when a variable changes, making the results public so somebody else can do the same thing and see if it is reproducable (or discarded into the Journal of Irreproducable Results). That certainly has swept and changed the world in the last centuries compared to what it was before when everything was based on religion and the decisions that came out of church politics. You as an engineer can probably tell some great stories about really rewarding experiences you have had putting knowledge to good use. In fact, I think that way of doing things has revolutionized things so much that it becomes 'the only way.' Believe me, I know engineers. My business is full of them. 99 out of 100 on them are politically to the right of Genghis Khan, more anti-union than Rush and think of guys like me as loose canon because we do things that wreck their careful plans. They are very good when put in situations where that mentallity works and, because they are good at that, think they are good at everything. 1 out of 10 or 100 engineers is a really neat guy like you who appreciates literature, arts, etc. and is a rounded individual.

I make my living from observations, drawing conclusions and making recommendations. I don't actually have the luxury of the scientific method sensu strictu (measurable evidence, formulation, testing and modification). Despite all the advancement made in my business, if I were to look at some of my conclusions and I know some of other peoples conclusions (especially the other folks, of course), I might wonder how strictly valid and logical they are. We do the best we can, but there is no way we can make measurements, formulate an explanation, test that, make modifications as needed and have others test the numbers. In short, a lot of what is presented as firmly logical as a formula is really on weak legs if you strictly dissect it and think about it.

I assume that demonic possession is passe after the Age of Enlightenment because it can not be measured and proven or disproven. By the same strict standards, how about the existence of God, life after death and so on. Or maybe God does exist, there is life after death and there are demonic possessions, albeit maybe rarely for extreme cases. Personally, if really pushed I could not prove or disprove either way on all of the above.

Maybe JaneKane and other people would like to weight in. Non-scientists are welcome