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Re: Pissed Off, About What ,

Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 9:05 am
by bobover3 (imported)
I'm "pissed off" about the gap between life as we imagine it and life as it is. What's especially saddening is to learn from painful experience, late in life, that things you had always believed to be true weren't. My recent (and present) severe illness, from which I'm still struggling to recover, has taught me much I didn't want to know.

The bills for my health care this year have been around a million dollars. I'm grateful for my insurance, but wonder if keeping me alive was worth it to anyone but me. I also wonder if I could get the care I've needed under Obamacare. Obamacare creates the IPAB (Independent Payment Authorization Board), a panel of 15 politically appointed non-doctors, who will decide which benefits will be available to which people, with an eye toward saving money.

Britain has the Liverpool Care Pathway (see http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/elder ... octor.html), a protocol for killing hospital patients by denying them food or water. The official line is that this is intended to ease the passing of those with terminal illnesses, but now doctors can decide, without anyone's consent, to do this to any patients they deem, perhaps mistakenly, to be bad off. About 130,000 people died on LCP in Britain last year. I don't know if anything like LCP will happen here, but the possibility scares me, because I'd be one of the victims.

I hope someone tells me my fears are overblown and that I'm being foolish, but all that I know of human nature tells me that it would be too easy to rationalize compulsory euthanasia. Let me draw an analogy to myself. I had stenosis (hardening and narrowing) of my trachea - the tube which carries air to the lungs. Every doctor at the major medical center I live near told me nothing could be done short of total reconstruction of my throat in a series of risky and difficult surgeries. So I went to see the world-renowned otolaryngologist, Dr. Peak Woo, at Mt. Sinai Hospital in NYC. He removed the stenosis in a simple outpatient surgery last Friday. Here's what I learned: the ignorance and vanity of most doctors will not let them admit that what they can't do can be done; that without an insurance system that would let me seek out an expert like Dr. Woo I'd be screwed. Will Obama's IPAB let me find (the very expensive) Dr. Woo, or will it save money by enforcing the "wisdom" of most doctors? When you're sick, these are no longer "political" issues, but matters of life and death.

Re: Pissed Off, About What ,

Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:03 pm
by Riverwind (imported)
Bob first let me say I am glad your getting better, as for the second part to your question I hope so, right now Americans pay more then 20% of their income on health care and the price keeps going up because as Romney says corporations are people and I can tell you the insurance companies, those people are screwing us. No business needs a 40+ % built in profit. Now you have great insurance, but 30% of working Americans don't because they simply can't afford it, who can afford 1500 a month? These are people like our own Paolo who works hard in a two man shop. If everybody has health care and everybody is paying into it, then the cost will go down, as for the third part of your complaint, if I remember correctly that was something the republican put in the health plan.

Bob I have no illusions that the health care bill is far from perfect or even good, but now that its on the books we can fix it until it is.

River

Re: Pissed Off, About What ,

Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 4:43 pm
by Dave (imported)
...Independent Payment Authorization Board

...

...Liverpool Care Pathway

....

I don't see the IPAB in the same light at Britain's LCP. I think that they are two different things.

I haven't done lots of looking at the IPAB but from all that I can tell, it's going to say things like we discussed in another thread where PSA screening numbers were not good reasons for scheduling drastic treatments.

I'm not sure that the IPAB has done anything else if it did that.

And let me add, 40 years ago, I was told that I wouldn't live past 55. I am older than that. I think its too bad that the docs that told me that are dead because I have no fear about telling them they were mistaken.

I was told that I wouldn't return to college for over a year and then I wouldn't be able to work a full schedule. I proved that wrong more than once, considering I own the house I live in and reached retirement as a chemical engineer.

However, our biggest difference might be that I called doctors assholes and fools 40 years ago.

Sorry to offend all the medical profession. I'm really a nice person until you start telling me things I can't do and I can prove you mistaken. Doctors beware.

Re: Pissed Off, About What ,

Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 5:13 pm
by Sweetpickle (imported)
The scary part is that no matter how well intentioned a law is it is implemented by bureaucrats.

Re: Pissed Off, About What ,

Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 6:44 pm
by moi621 (imported)
The scary part is :realpisse

The Lack Of Primary Care Practitioners with twenty plus years experience

from the planning counsels.

Most notably that occurred with HillaryCare which led to ManagedCare and "networks".

And when begging authorization for a diagnostic study,

you never know the education behind the decision maker.

Let Doctors be Physicians. That will offer the best medical care along with a patient's right to chose.

Moi

Re: Pissed Off, About What ,

Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 5:30 pm
by moi621 (imported)
😠

Those who do not respect, "private".

Especially, at EA 🙄

Re: Pissed Off, About What ,

Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 5:42 pm
by Riverwind (imported)
moi621 (imported) wrote: Fri Sep 21, 2012 5:30 pm 😠

Those who do not respect, "private".

Especially, at EA 🙄

Coming from the person who sends more Private messages then all the rest of the archive put together. Nobody is safe and if your box is full of his private messages he will tell you to empty it so he can send you some more.

Really!

River

Re: Pissed Off, About What ,

Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 8:55 pm
by moi621 (imported)
😠 Pissed Off? 😠

River, himself

Declared this don't pick on Moi, Thursday.

Wha happened? 😠 :(

When & where does the Liberal chorus meet for the next practice.

Seeking to harmonize. NOT!

C'est Moi!

Re: Pissed Off, About What ,

Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 8:58 pm
by Paolo
Oh, shut up.

All of you.

No one pick on no one day.

Re: Pissed Off, About What ,

Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 8:59 pm
by Paolo
moi621 (imported) wrote: Wed Sep 19, 2012 6:44 pm The scary part is :realpisse

The Lack Of Primary Care Practitioners with twenty plus years experience

from the planning counsels.

Most notably that occurred with HillaryCare which led to ManagedCare and "networks".

And when begging authorization for a diagnostic study,

you never know the education behind the decision maker.

Let Doctors be Physicians. That will offer the best medical care along with a patient's right to chose.

Moi

Now that's funny! 😄