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Re: "The Ghosts of Gotham City" and "Simon Beyond" explained.

Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 12:53 am
by Cainanite (imported)
Paolo wrote: Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:31 pm "YJ" is set on Earth 16, stated as being fairly unused in DC canon. I believe this comes from the JL movie "Crisis on Two Earths" which introduced the idea of multiple realities, much like the Star Trek TNG episode "Parallels". I was not all that impressed with YJ, and have watched both seasons. I absolutely detest their version of AquaLad. On another note, Robin sounds a lot like Zuko from "Avatar: The Last Airbender" on Nick, although it's not the same voice actor. You'll find that Beast Boy in season 2 sounds a lot like Aang, too, but it's not.

I never could get a handle on all the various DC alternate Earths. It has always seemed like a poor writer's excuse for not keeping track of all the important details. For that matter, I've always hated the "never stay dead" aspect DC has had with its characters. I thought when they killed Superman, he should have stayed dead.

I read a lot of comic books as a kid. It was prior to all the Crisis series debacles. It was easy to keep track of before they tried to merge everything and create alternate Earths. There was the universe of the main hero, which was totally independent. Then there was the universe of team-ups. In the team-up universes, anything could happen. It didn't affect the main hero's comic.

Someone at DC decided to make everything fit together into one big story. Everything that happened to each character would affect all the other characters. Sounds good on paper, but there was no way to keep track of it all. The stories had to suffer.

After they merged all the universes, you could no longer just pick up a comic and enjoy the story. You had to know what was going on in all the other comics for the story to make sense. They are still doing that pointless crap.

Tell the story the way it is meant to be told. Don't force it to fit with a bunch of other unrelated stories just because. Don't force me to read twenty comics just so I can enjoy one.

DC ought to dump the fused universes idea once and for all. Go back to the way it was and make comic book reading fun again.

Re: "The Ghosts of Gotham City" and "Simon Beyond" explained.

Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 5:11 am
by Paolo
One particular case in point is Beast Boy, or Changeling (Garfield Logan). They've messed his story up so much that it's impossible to follow.

I won't spoil it for you, but you're going to meet him in yet ANOTHER incarnation in YJ-S1, and he's a recurring character in S2. Although I admit I like what YJ did to him a lot better than the "bitten by a green monkey" story.

Re: "The Ghosts of Gotham City" and "Simon Beyond" explained.

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:50 pm
by Lucas Mcwilliams (imported)
Review on: "The Ghosts of Gotham City"

I am a Batman and Justice League / Justice League Unlimited fan. I really love how you took the existing mythology of the series (the reference to the first eisode of Justice League, where Batman financed the Watchtower by tapping into the R&D Space Budget, was a real hoot). It was also great how you juxtaposed the lives of Bruce Wayne and Matt McGinnis, in that they had to see the corpse of their parent.

of course, I don't exactly remember if the series actually mentioned who discoverd Warren's corpse, but I consider it an acceptable retcon if this is not the case. All in all, I really liked the story. I liked the premise, the way you "resurrected" Alfred, obliquely mentioned Ace the Bathound, and directly referenced several episodes of the series.

Three things of note however:

The reference to Harley Quinn and Joker would probably conflict with "Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker", where Joker was definitively killed and Harley Quinn made a cameo appearance as "Nana Harley".

While I realize Growler was placed into the story as a tribute of sorts, his character seems extraneous after his introduction. I felt you could have expounded more on the relationship between him and Matt. As it stands I felt the development of their relationship was unnatural, even stilted - and this applies to Growler's character here. I suppose you were leaving out his backstory for some future

Bruce Wayne was out of character here. I felt he acquiesced way too easily, and his immediate change of his beneficiaries was not anything I would have expected from the man. He does have a couple of former wards to think of.

I eagerly await your foray into the Young Justice universe. There are tons of story threads that could be exploited here, and given the premise of Season 1 (you'll find out what in the last episode of Season 1), very many ways to justify characters acting out of character and losing bits and pieces of themselves. If you choose Season 2 to build on, the abduction of teenagers would probably provide you with a perfect story vehicle.

Re: "The Ghosts of Gotham City" and "Simon Beyond" explained.

Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 2:07 am
by Cainanite (imported)
Lucas Mcwilliams (imported) wrote: Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:50 pm Review on: "The Ghosts of Gotham City"

I am a Batman and Justice League / Justice League Unlimited fan. I really love how you took the existing mythology of the series (the reference to the first eisode of Justice League, where Batman financed the Watchtower by tapping into the R&D Space Budget, was a real hoot). It was also great how you juxtaposed the lives of Bruce Wayne and Matt McGinnis, in that they had to see the corpse of their parent.

of course, I don't exactly remember if the series actually mentioned who discoverd Warren's corpse, but I consider it an acceptable retcon if this is not the case. All in all, I really liked the story. I liked the premise, the way you "resurrected" Alfred, obliquely mentioned Ace the Bathound, and directly referenced several episodes of the series.

Three things of note however:

The reference to Harley Quinn and Joker would probably conflict with "Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker", where Joker was definitively killed and Harley Quinn made a cameo appearance as "Nana Harley".

While I realize Growler was placed into the story as a tribute of sorts, his character seems extraneous after his introduction. I felt you could have expounded more on the relationship between him and Matt. As it stands I felt the development of their relationship was unnatural, even stilted - and this applies to Growler's character here. I suppose you were leaving out his backstory for some future

Bruce Wayne was out of character here. I felt he acquiesced way too easily, and his immediate change of his beneficiaries was not anything I would have expected from the man. He does have a couple of former wards to think of.

I eagerly await your foray into the Young Justice universe. There are tons of story threads that could be exploited here, and given the premise of Season 1 (you'll find out what in the last episode of Season 1), very many ways to justify characters acting out of character and losing bits and pieces of themselves. If you choose Season 2 to build on, the abduction of teenagers would probably provide you with a perfect story vehicle.

The reference to the Watchtower, and Ace, the Bat-Dog was all Paolo. He has an excellent way of adding color.

The Batman Beyond series did not mention who discovered Warren's body. I made the leap, that if they didn't say who did, then it made sense to me than an 8 year old who shared the DNA of Bruce Wayne might be the one. As the series didn't say one way or the other... Artistic Licence to the rescue!

To address your concerns;

It wasn't the Joker and Harley Quinn, It was a female nurse, by the name of Jackie Napier. The guard was male, and we only ever learn his last name, Quinn. Those characters were there as an homage to Joker and Harley. They were not actually Joker and Harley. Hence, the gender reversal.

I liked Growler a lot. He was fun to write, and though a tribute, I could have involved him a lot more than I did. The story was written spur of the moment. If I ever write a future story in this world, Growler will get a much bigger part.

Yes, Bruce Wayne has other heirs to consider. I did consider that. Dick Grayson has his own money and fortune. He was left a considerable sum from the settlement from his parents deaths. Lucius Fox turned it into a much greater sum with smart investments. Jason Todd died, and came back as Red Hood, an enemy of Batman. Tim Drake left to become a communications engineer. He didn't want much to do with Bruce after that. Though reconciled, I doubt he'd want much from Bruce. Damien Wayne was never addressed in the series or DC animated universe at all, so I happily ignored him. Also, I never said that Bruce didn't leave his former charges well supported in his will. He probably would have. However, I suspect Bruce had already altered his will so Terry would get control of his estate and controlling interests upon his death. He changed it to equal shares Terry and Matt.

I didn't go into any detail about what the will actually said. The main reason was because it simply wasn't important to the story. I didn't want to interrupt the flow with a detailed accounting of his bequeaths.

Thank you for your review. I did hope when writing it that someone as equally versed in the DC animated universe as I am, would appreciate it. There are also references to Brian Rogers, Dick Grayson's football playing roommate from Batman: The Animated Series. References to Static Shock (as suggested by Paolo) and a whole bunch of other references very few folk will ever notice.

What I am surprised no-one has called me out on, is the fact I have Matt lamenting that Batman never saved him, yet in Batman Beyond, Matt is kidnapped by a villain named Stalker, while Terry is watching him. Batman/Terry saves Matt, and brings him home. It was the one bit of continuity I knowingly violated to write my story. I felt it would have more impact, if Matt considered Batman above saving the little people. If I had included that Stalker reference, I would have had to write a whole explanation about that incident in the middle of a whole bunch of other exposition. As the beginning of the story was already exposition heavy, I pretended that incident simply never happened. But, if you are paying attention, I never say it didn't happen.

I have watched all the episodes of Young Justice at this point. So far, I am not overly thrilled about it. I know it is set in a different universe, but I just can't get my head past all the continuity violations. It violates not just the animated universe I've come to love, but also the comic books, and other animated movies WB has put out. That is a lot of history for me to ignore. When more episodes air, I'll continue to watch and give it the benefit of the doubt.

I might return to the Batman universe in the future. I have an inkling of a couple ideas. When the inspiration hits, we'll see Gotham's Ghost swing into action again.

Thanks again.

Re: "The Ghosts of Gotham City" and "Simon Beyond" explained.

Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 5:12 am
by Lucas Mcwilliams (imported)
You have to understand that the Young Justice continuity is completely separate from the DCAU (Batman: The Animated Series, The New Batman Adventures, static Shock, Superman: The Animated Series, Batman Beyond, The Zeta Project, Justice League, and Justice League Unlimited). Just as "The Batman" and "Teen Titans" are different. The DC Universe DTVs also exist in a separate bubble universe, with the exception of the Superman-Batman movies, and possibly the two Justice League and Green Lantern features.

In the Young Justice universe (Earth-16), public Superheroics is a fairly recent phenomenon, with Superman and Batman having no greater than ten years of work experience, so to speak. Suffice to say Young Justice is set in its own continuity, and does not adhere to any comics continuity. And you even have to specify which comics continuity: pre-Crisis, post-Crisis, post-Zero Hour, Flashpoint, or new-52. :P

I think it is fairly evident by this point that I'm a big fan of Young Justice, no? (I am a participant in the YJ Wikia) Let's leave it at that for now, I guess. If you are whelmed by it, then who am I to judge :)

Back to Batman Beyond. I have to say I never noticed that particular bit of continuity violation you mentioned. I don't even remember who Stalker is, to be quite honest. I do, however, remember an episode ("Babel") where we clearly see Terry care deeply for the common folk, to the point of being willing to sacrifice himself. Waller herself said as much in Epilogue, when she compares him to his old man.

In any case, I chose not to mention that because as fanboyish as kid Matt is about Batman, it is perfectly understandable for his memories to be scrambled after his castration. Memories are notoriously fickle that way, plus he's only a kid - fourteen by your story's conclusion. That kind of continuity violation is something I am more than happy to handwave away in favor of a more dramatic story.

Re: "The Ghosts of Gotham City" and "Simon Beyond" explained.

Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 1:53 pm
by Paolo
Now someone needs to whip us up a good "neutered Beast Boy" story!

Re: "The Ghosts of Gotham City" and "Simon Beyond" explained.

Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 1:24 pm
by Paolo
I just got a hold of the first few epi's of Season 1 of "Batman Beyond," and I find myself picturing the scenes from Cainanite's wonderful "Ghost of Gotham City" story!

I'm hoping I get enough of Season 1 downloaded before the power goes out here this weekend sometime, as I have NO plans on going out in the remnants of Isaac with a leaky sunroof in the truck!

Even if you're not a DC or Batman fan, the story still has enough descriptive backstory for you to enjoy it.

Highly recommended!

Re: "The Ghosts of Gotham City" and "Simon Beyond" explained.

Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 3:59 pm
by loveableleopardy (imported)
Paolo wrote: Sat Sep 01, 2012 1:24 pm Even if you're not a DC or Batman fan, the story still has enough descriptive backstory for you to enjoy it.

Highly recommended!

BUMP on this post and thread. I am not a fan of Batman, yet this story still made for terrific reading.

Re: "The Ghosts of Gotham City" and "Simon Beyond" explained.

Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 6:03 pm
by Paolo
https://eunuchworld.co/s13928

The next chapter of this amazing story is posted! "Ghosts of Gotham", that is. Go and read it, rate it, right now!

Re: "The Ghosts of Gotham City" and "Simon Beyond" explained.

Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 6:57 pm
by Cainanite (imported)
Paolo helped to inspire me to write "The Ghosts of Gotham City" and he helped me punch up the dialog on it.

He has gone the extra mile for me with "Fearful Symmetry". Not only did he suggest the story line, helped me with the dialog, and suggested some really awesome stuff. He also rescued this chapter, when it felt like I had no inspiration left. Much of this chapter Paolo wrote, to help me get over the hump. At least 50% is all the Dark Lord. I cannot thank him enough.

I'll leave it up to the reader to determine which parts are Paolo and which parts came from me. Here's a hint. If you liked that part, it was probably Paolo.

Be sure to send him all your thanks. there wouldn't even be a chapter three without him.