Testosterone changed my gender and eliminated the desire for castration

[guy26 (imported)]

Oh one other thing I just thought of...if your testicles do shutdown from taking exogenous testosterone, you may need to increase your dosage. Initially you benefit from both the T your body is making as well as the additional amount. When the testicles stop producing your levels can go down again. Just something to be on the lookout for.

Wolf-Pup

Thanks. That is a good point! So far it looks like taking testosterone about every three days to 3 times a week is just the right amount for me. As I told my therapist, it seems that my situation is a bit like goldilock's situation. Too little testosterone and it isn't effective all the time and too much

seems excessive in its ability to change who I am.

Originally when I got to taking testosterone twice a week on Wednesday and Saturday, I felt irritated all day on Tuesday. At first I didn't notice or think it was because of the testosterone, but after the third week I caught on. And

4 hours after taking the testosterone

on Wednesdays, all of the irritation went away. Once I switched to taking it every three days, I didn't notice ANY problems in my mood. The other reason that I moved it up just slightly is that I felt on every Wednesday I had to choose whether I wanted to be a guy or not! The effect of feeling like a guy wore off by waiting that extra day. It felt confusing to have to make that decision every week! Moving to every three days has eliminated that too.

I'll let you know if I find that I have to increase the testosterone because my body stops producing as much.

Since I started taking testosterone, I have noticed something somewhat unexpected in terms how my testosterone level feels over time. Initially, it felt like my testosterone level went dramatically up after just a few hours of taking a dose of testosterone. Then it would stay relatively high and constant and start to fall rapidly back to normal after a day and a half. But over time things have seemed to smooth out and I notice a much more constant level. I don't know if this is my imagination or not. I prefer that my testosterone level feels even and constant.

[DavidB (imported)]

I havent read your past posts, but I am glad to hear that you are feeling better about yourself, but I am also a bit confused. If you had normal T levels before you started the artifical T and now on an artifically high dose it doesnt seem to me that your issue was actually with T. It seems more likely that the artifically high T is addressing your bi-polar issues and thus really dealing with the side effects of your disorder then making you better.

[guy26 (imported)]

Guy 26,

Like tugon, I remember your posts. You were really in quite a state. I am glad to hear that you have found a means to correct the problem. As others have stated, taking a supplemental testosterone may cause your body to reduce production, so be watching out for a drop in your T level. For those who use a supplemental dose there is often some loss in size of the testicles, but its not like they will simply dry up and disappear. We are talking a reduction of maybe 25%. That should still leave you in a position of being in a normal size range.

I spent many years on a low dose supplement because my testicles never worked. I find now that using a larger dose that more closely comes into the normal range that I feel much more male than before. Even though the testicles were removed,I still identify first as male.

It is sad that in this day and time, something so simple as adjusting testosterone levels is NOT a standard therapy for people with emotional/sexual issues. I am very pleased that your therapist was willing to experiment a bit. You should press them to write a paper on your case. Others could benefit from your experience, beyond this site. Thankfully you never were able to achieve castration, or now with correct therapy , you would have another issue to deal with.

Good luck, and keep us posted on your progress.

Raymar

Hi Raymar,

It's interesting that you bring up the idea of my therapist writing a paper. A couple of times I have mentioned to him that I would be supportive if he wanted to write a paper for a professional journal. On several occasions I have searched PubMed and I have found very little information surrounding those being driven toward castration. Maybe after six months to a year and I'm still doing fine my therapist will be inspired to publish something?

In my opinion, more research and more information geared toward professionals would be welcomed. At the minimum it would increase awareness in the professional community and make it easier for others to seek help. On a side note, I am happy that the DSM-V is looking to make significant changes related to Gender Identity Disorders. I feel there is a lot of room for improvement.

I'm sure the abuse of testosterone by athletes has made it far more difficult for anyone to have access to it even when it is reasonable

. Given my experience so far, I

feel that the decision to take testosterone is a serious one and one that shouldn't be taken lightly. As with most medications, both the patient and doctor need to weigh the benefits against the risks.

I agree that I would feel a bit less like a guy without any nuts, but it isn't entirely tied to my sense of gender one way or the other. It's just better to have them because I now feel like a guy. So yeah, it's a good thing that I never went through with castration.

I will try to keep everyone up on my progress. With any luck, there won't be much to report! I'll just continue to feel like a guy!

[guy26 (imported)]

I havent read your past posts, but I am glad to hear that you are feeling better about yourself, but I am also a bit confused. If you had normal T levels before you started the artifical T and now on an artifically high dose it doesnt seem to me that your issue was actually with T. It seems more likely that the artifically high T is addressing your bi-polar issues and thus really dealing with the side effects of your disorder then making you better.

The principal reason that I am taking the testosterone is to address gender identity dysphoria. It has surprisingly dampened mood and emotional problems arising from my bipolar disorder. But that is only an unexpected benefit and not the reason I am on testosterone.

I drew a picture for my therapist that might help to clarify the situation. You can look at it at this link -- . Keep in mind I wasn't trying to explain gender in its entirety. I don't purport to understand things like bigender and trigender. This is only a depiction to explain my situation.

Post Image Elsewhere Please, then provide a link

http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/...identity-1.jpg

[janekane (imported)]

In my view, oversimplifying a complex situation may lead to undesirable outcomes. The regulation of testosterone levels in "intact" human males is a seriously complex "situation," and is affected by many aspects of human genetics and the expression of genetics upon experienced quality of life. My background includes decades of intense study of biology, both theoretical and applied, and I, as I may have mentioned far too many times already, am licensed as a professional engineer in part by having a university degree in bioengineering, and I also have a bioengineering Ph.D.

Based on decades of study (I began studying biology at college level, with college and graduate school level sources, when I was 7 and starting third grade. So what?

What intrigued me by time I started third grade was the observation that no two of anything are actually the same; or, that diversity is the essence of existence. As a college student, majoring in physics during the end of my teen years, I came upon the math needed to make useful sense of the Pauli Exclusion Principle, and thereby to formn some sort of useful-to-me grasp of the domain of definition of that principle. In toying with the math, the only way the Pauli Exclusion Principle has ever made any useful sense to me is that everything that exists is actually perfectly unique in forever, even though the mental models people make of things and events may be identical, identical models of events does not convey "identicality" onto what is being modeled.

Sorry about the way I worded that. Yet it is as good as I could make it.

I am exceedingly wary of offering diagnoses because I do not have anywhere near enough verified data to have a diagnostic clue. And yes, as an aspect of my work in theoretical biology, I have developed a diagnostic system, albeit not a system of differential diagnosis as is typical of allopathic medicine; my approach is of integral diagnosis, using biological pattern recognition approaches.

On the way to my Ph.D., I interacted with many physicians. One of them asked me for my diagnostic opinion regarding a "difficult case." After I had stated my integral diagnosis, the physician remarked to me, "You are as good at diagnosis as I am, but you have a different system." To which I replied, "The difference is, my system works."

So I found then, so I find ever since.

Were I to guess, I would guess that physicians do not yet make much, if any, use of "my system" because it requires a deep understanding of Bayes Theorem, biological pattern recognition classifiers and decision boundaries, ways of generating verifiable Bayesian priors, and especially formidable proficiency in doing accurate, high-dimension-space, complex-variable, relational tensor calculus.

Can anyone actually do that math? Methinks, yes. Why? Observe a superbly skilled athlete. There is now way that such an athlete thinks through in words exactly how and when to activate each and every individual motor neuron; such math is intuitive, I am guessing, even in a dinoflagellate.

So, if using androgen gel results in an improvement in your quality of life, my view is that you may wisely use it according to how your quality of life is optimized; wile allowing that the optimal "dose" for you may not be optimal for anyone else you will ever encounter.

My work in theoretical biology has led me to reject the commonplace understanding of medical/biological issues as being necessarily "disorders." Rather, I strongly favor an adaptive model, one in which genetic factors result in a repertoire of adaptive mechanisms which come into use in response to life events, and the adaptive mechanisms a particular person has may or may not allow for a satisfactory adaptation to life events. When internal adaptive mechanisms are unsatisfactory, I favor augmenting them with what may be deemed medicine and/or nutrition and/or behavioral modification.

If a testosterone level higher than your body's "testosterone homeostasis set point" is necessary for optimizing your quality of life, then gel augmentation and/or replacement seems very wise to me.

If varying levels are bothersome, I wonder whether dividing the gel dose into smaller, daily doses would give you a more consistent experience than a three day interval. That may be worth asking your prescribing physician...

[guy26 (imported)]

Guy26,

Here's something you need to consider and think about. If you still have your testicles, they will begin to shrink, because the topical testosterone will shut down your normal testosterone production, then you'll have to use more topical testosterone until eventually your own testicles won't make any at all. You'll be dependent on external testosterone for the rest of your life and it's not cheap.

If you go off the testosterone gel, your own testicles might eventually start producing "t" again, but maybe not, it depends on how long you stay on the external topical "t". A lot of male body builders who have used external testosterone for years, have testicles the size of peas, some have tried to go off it and use HCG to bring their testicles back to normal with no success.

Go to some body builder websites, very informative. http://www.steroidology.com/hcg-human-c ... adotropin/

Here's what happened to me before I was castrated. I had one remaining, though small and failing testicle and my endocrinologist decided to give me shots of "HCG" for a few months to actually force my testicle to pump out more testosterone and grow larger. It worked initially, but my remaining testicle had been so abused that it eventually failed, atrophied. That's when it was removed and I was fully castrated. http://testosteronewisdom.blogspot.com/ ... -size.html

However, in your case, had I been your endocrinologist, I would have recommended this course first, HCG injections, to see if your testicles would respond and increase the amount of testosterone that's produced. This is also what Tribulus Terrestis? does. (not sure of the spelling). Tribulus forces your testicles to produce more testosterone, but you've got to cycle this, use for a few days, off for a few days. http://www.bodyproject.com.au/do-you-kn ... t-booster/

Anyway, you're going to become completely dependent on external testosterone very soon and as a eunuch who's been on the external "t", I can tell you that it's not quite the same as the natural "t". So be careful with this stuff and do more research for yourself. Eventually, if you stay on external "t" for a long time, your testicles will shrink and shrink a lot to the point that you're actually a eunuch. Yes, a eunuch because your testicles are dead, tiny, atrophied.

"HCG may not only boost testosterone but also increase the number of Leydig cells in the testicles. It is well known that Leydig cell clusters in adult testes enlarge considerably under treatment with HCG. However, it has been uncertain in the past whether this expansion involves an increase in the number of Leydig cells or merely an enlargement of the individual cells. A study was performed in which adult male Sprague-Dawley rats were injected subcutaneously daily with 100 IU HCG for up to 5 weeks. The volume of Leydig cell clusters increased by a factor of 4.7 during the 5 weeks of HCG treatment. The number of Leydig cells (initially averaging 18.6 x 106/cm3 testis) increased to 3 times the control value by 5 weeks of treatment (P<0.001), while the average volume of individual Leydig cells (initially ~2200 µm3) enlarged only 1.6 times. They concluded that chronic treatment with HCG increases the number of Leydig cells in the testes of adult rats. We do not know if these results can be extrapolated to men."

I appreciate the more reserved if not more cautionary response. I have no doubt that there exists a risk that my testicles will stop functioning and I will become forever dependent on exogenous testosterone. So far the fact that I feel like a guy is nothing short of amazing and a huge benefit to

raising my testosterone level.

I feel normal in a way that I haven't since before puberty! If the ultimate cost over a long time is to lose normal sized functional testicles so that I can feel like a guy, it seems more than worth it to me. It also helps that whether they are there or how big they are isn't all that tied to how much of a guy that I feel I am.

I hope that my risk is less than male body builders that are raising their testosterone level far beyond what is considered within the normal range of an adult male. My risk may not be less though. I'm not even 100% sure if the amount I'm taking is beyond my testosterone homeostasis set point or not. Normally 5g of 1% of testosterone would be taking every day to get a castrate male into the half way point. I'm using the testosterone gel slightly more than twice a week. It is something that I should ask my endocrinologist about.

Once I had experienced

feeling like a guy for a few days

last year when I initially started the lueprolide acetate, I told my therapist that I would regret it later in life if that was the only time in life that I had felt like a guy. When I started the testosterone a few months ago, I literally started counting the days that I felt like a guy. I was that overjoyed. No one in my life completely understood how stupendous each new day was as a guy. I have stopped counting. Feeling like a guy every day isn't such a novel experience day after day. LoL. But I still find it profound on an intellectual level.

I agree that exogenous testosterone may not be exactly like the same thing. To me it seems better! Normal testosterone levels rise during the night and begin to fall in the early morning. When I began taking leuproide acetate over a year ago, I definitely noticed that my body was being forced to produce testosterone within hours of taking it in the morning. (Leuprolide acetate is a GnRH agonist which initially forces LH to be released and then of course testosterone to be released. In less than a week the pituitary becomes deaf to the GnRH and stops releasing any LH.) Anyway, it's my intuition and I have no explanation as to why, but experiencing higher levels of testosterone during the day seem to help me feel like a guy and it helps my mood.

Lately I have wished that I didn't have to take testosterone to feel like a guy. That's probably asking for the impossible. Maybe that is just a normal response to the idea of taking medication for the rest of one's life. In many cases with persistent mental illness, a person will get much better taking some medication. And then they will decide that they feel normal and don't need it any more. Predictably, things tend to go bad for them when they quit taking the medication cold turkey.

I am curious though. Can you elaborate on how exogenous testosterone isn't exactly the same as the normal production of testosterone for you? I have heard this before, but I don't fully understand the cautionary message.

The one slight negative I have seen since starting the androgel is that I don't' seem as driven to actually climax once I become sexual. It isn't that I can't or don't climax. I'm just not as driven to reach climax. It's a little weird, but it doesn't bother me either. It mirrors more generally how I more frequently feel sexual, but don't feel as driven to act out on it. That doesn't bother me either. I'm reaching climax more frequently and they are strong climaxes, so it just doesn't seem like a big deal.

It does sound worthwhile to become familiar with HCG and even talk to my endocrinologist about it. It is noteworthy that HCG hasn't been well studied in men.

The one thing I like about Androgel is that it is easy to control my testosterone level. As I mentioned previously, too much testosterone and I find it a little intellectually scary by how much it can change who I am. I feel lost on how to behave and interact with others when it is too high. It is hard to describe. At the level that I'm at now, it allows me to feel like a guy without being excessive. With the Androgel, if I take too much by taking it a day early, at most I only have to experience the excess for a day. Usually it doesn't last quite that long.

[SplitDik (imported)]

I totally agree, and have been recommending the same to others -- if you're into castration but not transsexual make sure you try to maximize your maleness before going to castration. I spent years with a serious obsession with castration which was rooted in a general discomfort with my male urges. Finally I realized it was a simple mismatch between what society expected (i.e. a non-aggressive, gentle, non-sexual, type of guy) with my true nature as a virile, dominant, thrill-seeking man. So I took a different approach: In addition to tweaking hormones (instead of getting testosterone which is a bit difficult to come by for many) I just suppress my estrogen (using Raloxifene or Tamoxifen). Furthermore, I engaged in many traditionally male activities -- I started seriously boxing (great channel for male aggression and athleticism), I bought some handguns (for sport only, don't keep them in the house), I started embracing my sexuality (stopped feeling bad about viewing porn, masturbating, having sexual fantasies, seeing strippers, or even seeing escorts).

And now I feel really, really good about myself. I still have the occasional regression, but ultimately believe I have have managed to minimize the castration desire while at the same time finding much more satisfaction in daily life.

So my advice to any non-transsexual guys seeking castration: make sure you try to maximize your maleness first, get in top shape, find outlets for your aggression and thrill-seeking, get a positive, dominant personality. Only after that (if it doesn't suit) then should you seek castration.

Also, related to your statement

I hope that my risk is less than male body builders that are raising their testosterone level far beyond what is considered within the normal range of an adult male. My risk may not be less though. I'm not even 100% sure if the amount I'm taking is beyond my testosterone homeostasis set point or not. Normally 5g of 1% of testosterone would be taking every day to get a castrate male into the half way point. I'm using the testosterone gel slightly more than twice a week. It is something that I should ask my endocrinologist about.

You are correct that there is little risk of issue with regular androgen HRT levels. Body builders take incredible amounts of testosterone -- I know guys easily taking 10x normal amounts, along with all sorts of other crazy stuff (insulin, prolactin suppression, diuretics, etc.). Testosterone has gotten a bad rap simply due to the sports "cheating" aspect -- it is a real shame because it is essentially a "wonder drug". Imagine if someone came up with a medication that would make you stronger, more energetic, better libido, achieve the perfect male body, etc. ... well guess what they have invented it!

There is some risks of cancer, but basically if you're at HRT levels then you just have the same risk as every other man on the planet.

[guy26 (imported)]

I totally agree, and have been recommending the same to others -- if you're into castration but not transsexual make sure you try to maximize your maleness before going to castration. I spent years with a serious obsession with castration which was rooted in a general discomfort with my male urges. Finally I realized it was a simple mismatch between what society expected (i.e. a non-aggressive, gentle, non-sexual, type of guy) with my true nature as a virile, dominant, thrill-seeking man. So I took a different approach: In addition to tweaking hormones (instead of getting testosterone which is a bit difficult to come by for many) I just suppress my estrogen (using Raloxifene or Tamoxifen). Furthermore, I engaged in many traditionally male activities -- I started seriously boxing (great channel for male aggression and athleticism), I bought some handguns (for sport only, don't keep them in the house), I started embracing my sexuality (stopped feeling bad about viewing porn, masturbating, having sexual fantasies, seeing strippers, or even seeing escorts).

And now I feel really, really good about myself. I still have the occasional regression, but ultimately believe I have have managed to minimize the castration desire while at the same time finding much more satisfaction in daily life.

So my advice to any non-transsexual guys seeking castration: make sure you try to maximize your maleness first, get in top shape, find outlets for your aggression and thrill-seeking, get a positive, dominant personality. Only after that (if it doesn't suit) then should you seek castration.

Also, related to your statement

You are correct that there is little risk of issue with regular androgen HRT levels. Body builders take incredible amounts of testosterone -- I know guys easily taking 10x normal amounts, along with all sorts of other crazy stuff (insulin, prolactin suppression, diuretics, etc.). Testosterone has gotten a bad rap simply due to the sports "cheating" aspect -- it is a real shame because it is essentially a "wonder drug". Imagine if someone came up with a medication that would make you stronger, more energetic, better libido, achieve the perfect male body, etc. ... well guess what they have invented it!

There is some risks of cancer, but basically if you're at HRT levels then you just have the same risk as every other man on the planet.

If someone is committed to castration for a long period of time, the reason isn't because of a transexual desire to become female, and the problem isn't because of a BIID issue, it seems potentially reasonable that someone would try BOTH approaches before actual castration. The first approach would be to lower their testosterone level for a significant period of time and determine if they are comfortable with the changes in the long term and if it brings them relief. The second approach would be to raise testosterone levels within the normal range to see if it allows them to somehow overcome their drive toward castration and feel comfortable as a man. It seems that the benefit of potentially avoiding castration outweighs the risks of trying anti-androgens and exogenous testosterone as a trial. Far more research needs to be done to understand the best protocol of treatment for those with this particular problem. I don't see that happening at any time, so sadly we are left with anecdotal evidence on effective treatment and sharing information on the eunuch archive.

Whatever is done I strongly feel that it should be done under professional supervision. It appears that health professionals are more willing to lower a person's testosterone level versus raising it within the normal range. Thus it could be hard for many to safely and legally experience both conditions before making a decision on castration. With persistence and time, maybe others will find success too in working with the medical community!

If I understand you, you are explaining a kind of incongruity that existed between your true self and what society expected of you. Resolving that incongruity through behavior and increasing your testosterone level to a degree somehow released you from that castration drive. I find it interesting that the changes you have seen in yourself partially resulted as a change in behavior, i.e. indulging in and becoming comfortable with what could be regarded as alpha male behavior. In my case, I don't know how any change in behavior could have made me feel like I do now. For example, I have lifted weights off and on over the years, but often times it would only exacerbat

e the gender incongruity that I felt.

Sometimes I would look more masculine and it would make me feel worse. I only felt driven to do weight lifting because I felt that it was a healthy thing to do as one component of a workout program.

The few times I tried increasing the dosage of androgel slightly beyond where I'm at, it left me feeling lost and unsure of how to respond to other people. That level felt natural, but far beyond anything that I previously experienced in life. Maybe that's what it feels like to be a guy with a higher level of testosterone? I really don't know. If I stayed at that level, it would change my behavior and interests in ways that I'm not really sure of. Maybe that's why I like my level where it is. I feel like a guy, but it doesn't push me in a direction where my behavior will change all that much. Despite the significant benefits I have seen because of androgel, I haven't regarded it as a "wonder drug." It feels more like a broad brush that has the potential to affect a whole lot of things!

You mention the risk of cancer. I was happy that my endocrinologist got a PSA base line so that he can keep track of it over time.

[guy26 (imported)]

Hi Janekane,

It is hard for me to follow up with an appropriate response. You certainly have a flair for words and discourse!

In my view, oversimplifying a complex situation may lead to undesirable outcomes. The regulation of testosterone levels in "intact" human males is a seriously complex "situation," and is affected by many aspects of human genetics and the expression of genetics upon experienced quality of life.

I agree in principle that the regulation of testosterone through exogenous use in intact males is more complex than in those that are lacking normal testicular function. There are a lot of variables that go into the hypothalamic-pituitary-gonadal axis that dictate how testosterone levels track over the hours and days.

My background includes decades of intense study of biology, both theoretical and applied, and I, as I may have mentioned far too many times already, am licensed as a professional engineer in part by having a university degree in bioengineering, and I also have a bioengineering Ph.D.

Based on decades of study (I began studying biology at college level, with college and graduate school level sources, when I was 7 and starting third grade. So what?

What intrigued me by time I started third grade was the observation that no two of anything are actually the same; or, that diversity is the essence of existence. As a college student, majoring in physics during the end of my teen years, I came upon the math needed to make useful sense of the Pauli Exclusion Principle, and thereby to formn some sort of useful-to-me grasp of the domain of definition of that principle. In toying with the math, the only way the Pauli Exclusion Principle has ever made any useful sense to me is that everything that exists is actually perfectly unique in forever, even though the mental models people make of things and events may be identical, identical models of events does not convey "identicality" onto what is being modeled.

Sorry about the way I worded that. Yet it is as good as I could make it.

I am exceedingly wary of offering diagnoses because I do not have anywhere near enough verified data to have a diagnostic clue. And yes, as an aspect of my work in theoretical biology, I have developed a diagnostic system, albeit not a system of differential diagnosis as is typical of allopathic medicine; my approach is of integral diagnosis, using biological pattern recognition approaches.

On the way to my Ph.D., I interacted with many physicians. One of them asked me for my diagnostic opinion regarding a "difficult case." After I had stated my integral diagnosis, the physician remarked to me, "You are as good at diagnosis as I am, but you have a different system." To which I replied, "The difference is, my system works."

So I found then, so I find ever since.

Were I to guess, I would guess that physicians do not yet make much, if any, use of "my system" because it requires a deep understanding of Bayes Theorem, biological pattern recognition classifiers and decision boundaries, ways of generating verifiable Bayesian priors, and especially formidable proficiency in doing accurate, high-dimension-space, complex-variable, relational tensor calculus.

Can anyone actually do that math? Methinks, yes. Why? Observe a superbly skilled athlete. There is now way that such an athlete thinks through in words exactly how and when to activate each and every individual motor neuron; such math is intuitive, I am guessing, even in a dinoflagellate.

I don't have any practical experience with bayes theorem except in the practical application of bayes pattern recognition in setting up spam filtering. I suppose it could offer a new methodology of recognizing disease and suggesting diagnoses for people. I'm a little unsure of the specific application of this methodology in practice. At the minimum, one would have to handle false positives appropriately, which would almost certainly occur. I could also imagine that it will take a lot of effort to change the culture of the medical profession to accept this kind of methodology in every day practice.

So, if using androgen gel results in an improvement in your quality of life, my view is that you may wisely use it according to how your quality of life is optimized; wile allowing that the optimal "dose" for you may not be optimal for anyone else you will ever encounter.

I have not thought of the use of androgel as a means to improve my quality of life. That is a reasonable way of looking at it, especially if weighing the use of it against potential risks. I feel that my quality of life has significantly improved.

My work in theoretical biology has led me to reject the commonplace understanding of medical/biological issues as being necessarily "disorders." Rather, I strongly favor an adaptive model, one in which genetic factors result in a repertoire of adaptive mechanisms which come into use in response to life events, and the adaptive mechanisms a particular person has may or may not allow for a satisfactory adaptation to life events. When internal adaptive mechanisms are unsatisfactory, I favor augmenting them with what may be deemed medicine and/or nutrition and/or behavioral modification.

If a

mong other things you are rejecting diagnostic labels for people, especially when they involve mental health issues, I'm all for that. People are complex organisms and a label has a way of over simplifying their issue(s). It is on the behest of the medical professional not to allow a label to be a crutch in understanding the individual and their problem. Without that it would be difficult to offer care that is appropriate for all individuals.

If a testosterone level higher than your body's "testosterone homeostasis set point" is necessary for optimizing your quality of life, then gel augmentation and/or replacement seems very wise to me.

If varying levels are bothersome, I wonder whether dividing the gel dose into smaller, daily doses would give you a more consistent experience than a three day interval. That may be worth asking your prescribing physician...

Early on I had considered smaller daily doses, but I didn't want to try that without consulting my endocrinologist. So far I'm really happy with just every thee days. I haven't noticed anything bothersome with that interval, especially once things seemed to smooth out by itself. It seems to just work.

[Wolf-Pup (imported)]

It sounds as if your situation is fixed, don't break it

Have you had your T levels tested since you've been on the Androgel?

The concern on hypogonadism2 group on Yahoo, from the folks that are using HCG, is that they worry that the leydic cells in the testicles may do more than just create testosterone. They worry that they are losing some intangibles by letting the testes atrophy. Personally I don't worry too much about it. My Endo who seems to be up on these things said she'd only use HCG if I was worried about maintaining fertility. which I'm not.