4 old men in court today

[Dave (imported)]

...

The most damning evidence is that the group had a vat of castor beans, and a recipe for Ricin. You can buy castor beans most anywhere, and fairly cheaply. You can find a recipe on the internet. I'm guessing that is about as far as that got. Beans and a piece of paper do not a weapon of mass destruction make.

...

There is one bit of truth here that all this discussion has to bear in mind:

They stepped from just talking away about a problem to doing something. When they bought castor beans they went beyond the bounds of free speech into action and actions do speak louder than words in life and in a court of law.

That may sound like two platitudes strung together but that is true.

First, words do not a provocation make -- meaning that mere words cannot be the excuse to violence (I'm not considering speech that incites to violence, only the utterances of old men dissatisfied with the government). That speech is protected and allowed under the first amendment.

Second, actions do speak to the law much louder than words. I might have the knowledge to rob a bank but until I take a purchase gun and a mask and scout out the bank, nothing happens. (and I'm not going to involve conspiracy to commit crime, which is intention and not action). These four old men went beyond mere words into the action of buying castor beans that are the base of RICIN, a very poisonous substance. It is again important to remember that Warfarin is a very poisonous substance but you can buy it in rat bait to kill rats. You can buy muriatic acid, a deadly poison on contact with skin or breathing the fumes to clean brick and/or fix your swimming pool. There is no second use for castor beans. There is only the first use in their mind to create ricin. Ricin has been used in a long list of bad deeds over the years.

[Riverwind (imported)]

However true that may be, did these old men have the knowledge to make Racin? or know how to handle it without killing themselves. From the sounds of all of this it looks like they were incompetent at best. Also there is what appears to be entrapment going on which is to me worse than just about anything the government does.

One thing is clear, we don't have all the facts yet.

River

[Cainanite (imported)]

There is one bit of truth here that all this discussion has to bear in mind:

They stepped from just talking away about a problem to doing something. When they bought castor beans they went beyond the bounds of free speech into action and actions do speak louder than words in life and in a court of law.

That may sound like two platitudes strung together but that is true.

First, words do not a provocation make -- meaning that mere words cannot be the excuse to violence (I'm not considering speech that incites to violence, only the utterances of old men dissatisfied with the government). That speech is protected and allowed under the first amendment.

Second, actions do speak to the law much louder than words. I might have the knowledge to rob a bank but until I take a purchase gun and a mask and scout out the bank, nothing happens. (and I'm not going to involve conspiracy to commit crime, which is intention and not action). These four old men went beyond mere words into the action of buying castor beans that are the base of RICIN, a very poisonous substance. It is again important to remember that Warfarin is a very poisonous substance but you can buy it in rat bait to kill rats. You can buy muriatic acid, a deadly poison on contact with skin or breathing the fumes to clean brick and/or fix your swimming pool. There is no second use for castor beans. There is only the first use in their mind to create ricin. Ricin has been used in a long list of bad deeds over the years.

You are on the money there. That is why these old guys lives will be ruined.

I like to imagine a lot of crazy things. I play D&D, and have a blast playing my half-orc cleric. Sometimes my fantasy life bleeds out into my reality. I own several swords, and enjoy swinging them around, or using them to slice through an old cardboard box or two. It makes the fantasy richer for me. That said, I'd never use one of my swords to attack another person. If I so much as nicked another human being with my swords, I'd never forgive myself. In the privacy of my own home, and in my own fantasy though, I am Conan the Barbarian.

Sometimes play-acting includes buying the toys to make it seem more real. It enhances the fantasy. I think that is what this was. Something to enhance the fantasy. I think when the undercover agents got involved, they were able to sway that fantasy further than if the old guys were just left to their own devices.

For the record, there are a lot of uses for castor beans that don't include Ricin. HERE. (http://herbs-treatandtaste.blogspot.com ... randi.html) Though they definitely warn it is toxic.

As River said, we'll know more as more facts become available.

[Sweetpickle (imported)]

We may hear nothing further about it, if the HSA can't make a case that they are real terrorists

they may just put them in jail and shut up.

We had a terrorist case here a few months ago. He bought some items at Target. Walked across the

parking lot to the mall, may have set his shopping bag on fire, then escaped on the next available city bus.

It was a homeless guy. Winter is on it's way. They caught him a day or two later at the grocery store.

It has completely faded from the news.

[A-1 (imported)]

could just be 4 old blokes wanting to live out a fantasy. =P

I doubt it. It they did they would be hunting up somebody like YOU!

[Cainanite (imported)]

I doubt it. It they did they would be hunting up somebody like YOU!

I'm sure Punky is a lot of people's fantasy. As has been said many times before, Punky freaking rocks!

I think it is more likely that the fantasy of making a difference is what was keeping the old guys going through their day. I really wonder if they would have gone through with it.

Why do I think a movie could be made out of this story? I'd write it as an edgy comedy. I'd cast Morgan Freedman, Al Pachino, Dustin Hoffman, and Jack Nicholson. Throw in Jason Bateman, as the guy who has to infiltrate the "Covert Group" and have it written by the Cohen Brothers.

Heck, I'd watch it.