frankwilder (imported) wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:49 pm So, I could use some advice.

Am trying to figure out if I should try Androcur or an SSRI or both or something else.

Basic situation: about 50 years old, 2 largely grown kids, my wife's sex drive has pretty much crashed over the last 5 years I am sorry to come here and whine. But I really am at the end of my rope and could use some advice.

Peace.

Frank, if you read through some of the various threads you will see that a lot of men here around your age in life have lowered their sex drive for the same reason. Your first step is to talk with your wife and suggest that you start taking some sort of medication so that you're not horny all the time. Once your wife realizes that you don't want to poke her every time you're close to her, she'll be able to sleep next to you and let you touch her without the fear that you'll be asking for it.

There are risks with taking any medication. I started takng herbs and SSRI. Neither worked for me and eventually I switched to Androcur. Without testosterone, the side effects can almost become debilitaiting, but eventually my body adapted to them. Then I went to alcohol injections to make my new low sex drive permanent.

Although I am still able to have sex, I no longer crave it and it is no longer the driving force in my life that it once was. I like it this way and so does my wife. I look forward to sleeping with her every night without the tension of hoping to get laid.

PS: I agree with what Raymar said before my post.

Response to frankwilder:

My situation is very similar to yours. I'm 55 and my wife is 59. She became menopausal about 15 years ago, and it was around that time when we first mused over the idea of castration as a 'fix' for our sex drive mis-match. It's a long story, but she developed breast cancer a few years later, and all the treatments and side effects have made her feel even less sexy. Along the way we read up on the various methods of castration, and found out about all the probable and possible side effects. I have tried cyproterone acetate (Androcur) a few times, but I have not been able to cope with the side effects very well and have stopped taking the drug after a week or two on each 'attempt'. I have problems with my sleep anyway and when my testosterone drops I find that I can't sleep properly at all, and that just isn't sustainable for me. I might try a different drug sometime, but in the meantime I'm working on my sleep issues: I'm having some counselling plus complementary therapies (ei. reflexology) and am feeling a lot better. On a whim, I recently bought a book 'The Sex-starved Marriage: A Couple's Guide to Boosting Their Marriage Libido' by Michele Weiner Davis. My wife and I have been reading it together and, although we don't exactly fit any of the models that the author uses as examples, we are finding it very interesting and it seems to be helping us a lot. I think the most useful aspect of this is that my wanting to read it with her has made my wife understand that I do still love her and want to have a sex life WITH HER. It's also made us both realise that she still wants to have one with me too, it's just that she didn't feel capable or attractive enough. We've both discovered a lot about ourselves and each other, and we are feeling a lot better about ourselves and each other. PLUS we've put aside some quality time for it and had some very nice sex lately. Her orgasms are still very fleeting and slight, but we're not letting it bother us.

I'm not trying to plug that book in particular (although we do think it's very good) because I'm sure there are many similar books out there that might be as helpful. The main message I wanted to give you was that we thought we knew the dynamics of our relationship, but we have learned some very helpful stuff. We thought that the differences in our sex drives (ie. I often have spontaneous sexual thoughts, and she doesn't) was all to do with our hormones, but it seems that lots of couples - even young couples - have a similar mismatch and it's just as likely to be the woman who seems to want sex more than her partner, so it isn't a sexist issue.

If you're having suicidal thoughts you need to do something about that right now. I'd suggest you get yourself some sessions with a qualified psychotherapist. It's working very well for me, and I think it'll probably work for you.

frankwilder (imported) wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:49 pm So, I could use some advice.

Am trying to figure out if I should try Androcur or an SSRI or both or something else.

Basic situation: about 50 years old, 2 largely grown kids, my wife's sex drive has pretty much crashed over the last 5 years (she's the same age) while my sex drive has declined only gradually -- I still beat off at least twice a week; for several years now we've made love maybe 2x or 3x a year at most, she doesn't really even enjoy being eaten or fingered, even though she screams with pleasure when she lets me love her to the Big O; I love her, and she has an auto-immune disease and is afraid of my leaving her alone and sick, which I would never do, we've been together for 30 years and have a genuine emotional bond; I want to be together for the long haul including if/when we eventually have grandkids; she is leery of cuddling out of fear that I get a hardon and she can't deal with it; I miss being touched and held so much I am nearly crazy with sadness and depression and have even started to think about suicide but that would be so selfish and cruel to her and the kids; I have been attracted to guys since forever, and had a couple of gay relationships when younger but have always preferred sex with women; I will not cheat on my wife but can't continue to handle this bind where I have no sex, no touch, yet a considerable ongoing sex drive.

I know a lot of the guys on this forum are transgendered or in process or have body image issues and have suffered from social putdowns and violence and crap a lot worse than I have ever seen. I am sorry to come here and whine. But I really am at the end of my rope and could use some advice.

Peace.

First, I'd like to recommend therapy. Thoughts of suicide should always be dealt with on a therapists couch. I know, I've been there and it's one of the reasons I'm usually in therapy.

As to your wanting to lower your testosterone, or "T" as we call it here. Yes, I'd recommend Androcur. Like I tell everyone here, do your homework. Research all you can about Androcur...how it works, dosage, side effects, etc.

I used to be on it and it castrated me quite well. I LOVED the feelings it gave me. It really is amazing what happens when you remove T from the equation. I was calmer, more focused, more emphathetic, I was

raynestorm (imported) wrote: Sun Feb 20, 2011 8:28 pm more affectionate toward my wife...

we still had sex but it wasn't lust driven, it was love driven. We looked at sex as a bonus with no pressure. That feeling is one of the reasons I decided to make the change permenant via alcohol injections.

But before I did, I did my homework. There's a thread here that's was over 43 pages long at the time and I read every post from every person. I researched it on the internet and gathered as much info as I could. So I can say without hypocrisy that should you decide to start Androcur to do your homework.

200 mg is a dose a day is toxic to your liver. I started with 25 a day and worked up to 50.

We have a saying on this board, "Your mileage may vary", or YMMV. What worked for me may not work for you, or that you may have to tweak it a bit.

The great thing about Androcur (goes by other names, including Siterone) is that if you stop taking it, everything returns to normal.

Me, I'm a MtF and that's not going to change so permenant castration is a great thing and something I'll never want to change. Part of the reason you want castration is for your wife and your relationship. Something may happen to change that....she could suddenly end up wanting sex or your relationship may end. It's not probable, but it's possible. Androcur keeps the option open just in case. If nothing changes between you and your wife, you can take Androcur for the rest of your life. But if something does change, all you have to do is stop taking it. Although I'd recommend doing so gradually as doing so suddenly can actually raise your T levels.

I hope I helped.

Raynestorm

Chemical castration certainly cures me of my companionship needs, but not in any way that I have read about in this forum!

Let me explain.

When I was a boy of 6 a garage door that was yet to be screwed in place, fell on my head and knocked me out! No one made anything of it (this was back in the early 60's). I think that it did some damage though.....

A couple of years after that I started getting the urge to cross dress and be a girl. Roll the clock on over 40 years and your scribe is someone who is still a cross dresser, but more to the point has never been in any relationship or even been kissed. My only sexual outlet is "self relief" and as my objects of desire are men I suppose that make me a virgin gay.

What a ramble you say - quite correctly.

I don't know if the blow on the head did do damage around relationships, but I've always has this fixation on a sex change, but one that no one would knew about. That's mainly because I would always look like a man in a dress! But it would just be for me.

Well, my first step last March, after reading much of what has been written about chemical castration, I started on 100mg/day for one month on Siterone and estrogen patches for breast development (not something you want I know). I then dropped down to 50mg/day of Siterone as a maintenance dose.

This really worked for me.

Where does companionship come into this? Well, it's the cross dressing thing. There's quite a lot of papers out there about the roots of the hobby, but there's a theory about the wife/husband rolled into one for companionship. I don't know if it is true, but one thing I do know. Siterone, took away all this turmoil and guess what, the self relief and cross dressing stops and then.....peace........

The problem is that during my period of peace, I start to worry about the health risks with what I am doing and so stop. Then the cycle starts all over again.

Since March, I have stopped and started three times.

I am now start my forth as of today.

My last stop was the end of November and I was interested that no function had returned. I thought that the effects were proving to be permanent, as can be in some circumstances, I was happy. But then last Fridays, the thoughts started to return

I wish I could break the stop/start cycle.....

Enough of my ramble.......

raymar2020 (imported) wrote: Tue Feb 22, 2011 7:32 am To the OP,

I can't speak for chemical castration as I never did it, but i can speak about the effects of very low testosterone. I found that in spite of hot flashes, UGH!, and a reduced ability to get erect, that I still had a libido, albeit a less pressing one. The lack of erections proved to be very frustrating since there still seemed to be an occasional need.Whipping a limp noodle was no fun at all.

This calm that others speak of never was there for me. I got depressed, and lithargic. I had so little energy, that even getting up to go to work was a challenge.

As to the pets thing, This I can share with you on. My darling dog is the apple of my eye. When my ex left and did some really horrible things , she was the constant in my life. I got that greeting when I came home, and she was more than willing to snuggle up with "Daddy" at night. I now am partnered again, but she has not changed. It does cause some stress in our house that I am so close to the dog. Even so, I'd say that she helped me thru some rough times, and was a means of companionship when I felt I could trust no humans.

Get a dog, but only one, you'll have a stronger bond with just one. It is not the replacement for human companionship, but it is a great therapy when no humans are around .

Raymar

A lot of men do genuinely want to cuddle/snuggle with their partner, but there is that prick downstairs that just never shuts the fuck up, "Give me some action!" it yells

I like the fact that so many people on the EA can talk (with us and with their partners) about sex and especially about trying to even up the desire level of both partners (doesn't matter whether it be a man-man, woman-woman, woman-man, it's frustrating for both partners if there is no balance). It is such a major factor in human happiness-sadness and life really could be better if sex could be discussed more openly in general life.

I will not be expecting to get the so called Eunuch calm, as a result of future medications, but I am hopeful. I use the word hope differently to expect. I will not consider my life to be completely hopeless if I can't get what I want from certain medication. But I think that I should make the best out of whatever my situation is, so if I had to always keep my sex drive (until it starts to dwindle with age) then I would try for better habits, such as quick masturbation (not wasting time on it), which I have done with minimal success in the past. There are always ways to try to improve things.

If Androcur made it impossible to get an erection, but I still greatly desired to have one (and was extremely frustrated by this), then I would just get off the drug. It would be a minor disappointment, but that is all.

And with medicine and science always progressing who knows what will be available in just 3 years time as options for us folk?

Raymar, is your partner jealous of your closeness with your dog?

I think that to get just one dog might be best for the human, but what about the dog? Wouldn't it get lonely during the day? I'm not holding that against you man, just creating some conversation/thought.

I like that your dog is not

raynestorm (imported) wrote: Tue Feb 22, 2011 8:22 am jealous of your new partner. A very cool canine indeed!

"200 mg is a dose a day is toxic t

o your liver. I started with 25 a day and worked up to 50."

Thanks for the advice Raynestorm.

And thanks for you ramble Lindsey. It is an interesting suggestion that you make that the desire to cross dress is a part of a desire to be ones own companion (the being a male and female rolled into one). I never would have thought of anything like that, and would have just assumed that it was an interest that some gay men had.

Keep rambling when you feel like buddy.

Yes my partner can be very jealous of my closeness with the dog. There are times when I am doting on her , and he is the one that wants to be doted on. We work thru them though. She gets her "daddy time" every day, and that seems to work out well.

Having one dog is fine. What mine does during the day when we are away is act as guard dog, and sleep. Her routine is such that even when I am home on weekends she tends to spend most of the day sleeping. She has many toys, and on occasion I come home to find that she has pulled out several of them, cause she was ready to play. On those days she will greet me and then go get a toy as if to say "OK Daddy, now we play together".

Raymar

Thanks so much for the feedback and the support and ESPECIALLY for sharing your own stories. This is the first time I have not felt weird or alone in quite awhile.

Raymar, your dog sounds wonderful. Our mutt passed away after more than 12 years and we still miss the sound of her nails on the floor. She could be both fierce (you did not want to run across her if you were a rabbit) and so gentle and loving and non-judgmental. Very happy to hear you have a new human partner in the house and one who has the canine seal of approval to boot. He should be honored!

Riven, special thanks for the book recommendation and an amazing description of your own journey in love and partnership. Your story, and nonames', and others like it here gave me the guts to start a (continuing) conversation with my wife about bringing more balance to our situation via my moving in her direction.

Raynestorm, you absolutely helped. I appreciated your advice to see a therapist now and to proceed stepwise on libido pruning. I called the HMO to see if I could get in front of a therapist sooner than the 6-weeks-out appointment they gave me when I called before. There was a cancellation and I got to see a nice, young, friendly psychiatrist today who put me on Prozac for the depression. He found my welcoming approach to the possible "sexual side effects" unusual but he didn't freak. He did mention what it is like to treat kids who had a parent who checked out early. Sounded like bad karma to me.

lindsey, you are so beautifully descriptive about your thoughts and hopes and wishes and experience, and you are FUNNY! Please, please continue to share your experience as you enter Round Four.

SO, for now, time to start the Prozac, see where that goes, learn more about Androcur, keep open the conversation with my better half. Fare forward.

raymar2020 (imported) wrote: Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:20 am Yes my partner can be very jealous of my closeness with the dog. There are times when I am doting on her , and he is the one that wants to be doted on. We work thru them though. She gets her "daddy time" every day, and that seems to work out well.

Having one dog is fine. What mine does during the day when we are away is act as guard dog, and sleep. Her routine is such that even when I am home on weekends she tends to spend most of the day sleeping. She has many toys, and on occasion I come home to find that she has pulled out several of them, cause she was ready to play. On those days she will greet me and then go get a toy as if to say "OK Daddy, now we play together".

Raymar

You make some good points. I had completely forgotten about the fact that most pet dogs get very little sleep at night because they are keeping watch on the house/property, and therefore like to sleep a lot during the day (therefore not feeling too lonely when the human is at work). I think that I would prefer to get a dog than a cat, though not particularly sure of what type. Maybe if I did get one in the future it would be a case of just looking around with an open mind and just 'knowing' when I see my best companion!

That is a really nice image that you present regarding your dog getting the toy and greeting you.

As for my medication, I have decided to take a break from it (therefore it will be the first stage in nearly nine months for being off medication - doesn't seem like anything significant, but previous to last June I was never on any regular meds). The Spiro is just doing nothing for me. I only feel negative effects so why continue with it (even though it's only been about 19 or 20 days)? My sex drive is still way too high. I am also giving blood in early April and want to be strong for that - Spiro may have made doing that dangerous. I will also try to get back to some healthier living habits - this is not so much to do with Spiro, but just me being lazy, not exercising, too much time in front of computer, etc. At this stage I think I will give Spiro another try in April, and maybe after a couple of weeks on 100 mg increase to 200 mg for a bit and see if that does anything with the sex drive. Even if not, then I will soon be seeing my doctor again, where I will very likely argue very strongly in regards to getting a prescription for Androcur. For now I will look forward to being clean and seeing how that feels again.

If reduction of sex drive is an intermediate goal, while less than perfect, there are many non-caustic things you can do that will help to lower the amount of DHT in your body. Ordinary food and herbs. Loads of data on this on the internet, especially in body building web sites; they tell you what lowers testosterone - which is what they do NOT want, but it gives you a starting point on what TO do to not increase testosterone and even possibly lower testosterone.

Not a perfect or permanent solution, but perhaps better than nothing. If spiro isn't working and your body is able to tolerate androcur then that might be a next level to consider and evaluate. Spiro gave me swollen tender breasts. Only side effect I had from siterone was loss of interest in sex and sex drive. But it is a caustic and not cheap chemical and not necessarily permanent and potentially harmful to one's liver if not administered in a medically responsible way.