Il Musico has a very good point, allthough he is probably a bit too optimistic about 'little surgery'.

I think figures like 90% come from mixing up rumours of very bad total castration techniques (+ penectomy) performed in China and in the Arabic world.

Most probably in Italy these figures are, indeed, far too much exagerated.

How strange is it that this puzzles so many people. I reckon more people, not only active on forums like here, would like very much to see/hear a real castrato ?

Vesal.

SplitDik (imported) wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2010 7:59 pm I agree that there does seem to be a lack of information to support claims of high mortality.

However, for the Chinese eunuchs there is evidence that the mortality was high. And you also have to remember that many people didn't value children that much even into the 1800s. The parents were willing to take a gamble -- if their child's operation was successful they could be rich and if the child died then it was one less child to feed.

But I agree that it is better to say "we don't know", rather than make up statements about high mortality.

An interesting point but rather different, in that the Castrato only had their testicles removed whereas Chinese Eunuchs had the entire package severed. In any case you have to take into account that certain boys would have been quite willing to under go such surgery, more so in the Chinese case I believe.

Quillman UK:)

Indeed a Chinese-style complete nullification was MUCH more dangerous than an Italian-style simple castration. The blood loss is many times higher, the wound is very much bigger, and then there are all the problems coming from urinating right through a big wound. It's really comparing apples and oranges.

A Chinese castrator would take a very sharp knife and hack away the whole package in one sweep, leaving a BIG, heftily bleeding wound. Then he would try to get the bleeding under control. Then the victim had to fight any possible infection, which could happen both during and up to several days after this crude surgery, due to the big, open wound. And then, it was still to be seen whether the victim could still urinate, or if the urethra would close!

An Italian castration was very tame in comparison. A surgeon might only poke a thin, narrow, sharp, and hopefully clean tool through the skin, and cut the cords. There would be just two pinhole wounds left, closing within minutes. Inside, of course, there would be a mess, with bleeding and dead tissue, but a healthy body can cope with that. Or the surgeon would make small slits, and actually remove what needed to be gotten rid of. And possible cauterize the vessels, at least the bigger ones. The result would be no dead tissue inside, no big bleeding, at the cost of larger wounds, but still very much smaller than those of the Chinese victims.

And no problems with urination, of course!

And then there might have been the matter of age. Italian castrations invariable happened before puberty. Later, they made no sense and so weren't done. That means, only small, still undeveloped organs were removed. They have small blood vessels, so the worst-case blood loss is low.

Chinese eunuchs instead, as far as I know, were made at any age, even at an age were the organs in question were at their maximum size, activity and irrigation level. And such an adult castration is certainly more dangerous.

Clearly, if I had been given the choice, most certainly I would have preferred the Italian style!

I do not claim to have done any scholarly research on this subject. But I do have a bit of knowledge about castration that I acquired growing up on a small farm. Early on I learned that male animals intended for “home consumption” were castrated so that their meat would not have a “gamey” taste. I know for a fact that I assisted in animal castrations several years before I realized the significance of the parts that were being removed.

We raised quite a few pigs for home consumption. Cattle and sheep testes hang down on the underside of the body where they are easy targets for banding and the burdizo. Pig testes do not hang down. They carry theirs high and close to their bodies. So pigs have to be cut.

The person doing the cutting was usually my Dad. Although he appreciated the need for the operation, he didn’t like doing that to another male. As a result he would usually wait until the pig got to be 200 to 300 pounds and he was forced to do it. By that time, the pig had been sexually mature for about a year. It usually took 2 adults and 2 children to hold the pig down while Dad performed the operation. Over the years, I think one pig actually died from the operation and several others only survived because they received a shot of strong antibiotics after they became seriously ill. Needless to say, the operation was always quite an ordeal.

My younger brother and I raised registered hogs for 4H. We actually read the manual on hog production, including the part about castration. We were amazed to learn that the book recommended performing that operation at six weeks of age. One year, we decided that we would get a jump on the situation. So the two of us (I was probably 13, my brother was 12) gathered all the equipment needed and castrated about a dozen piglets that were about 8 weeks of age. We shared the work. I held half of them while my brother cut. Then he held while I cut. The whole operation took about 45 minutes. The subjects kept kinda quiet for the rest of the day. The next day they were playing around like nothing had happened. None died. Not one got sick. Things went pretty smoothly. But we decided not to tell Dad or Mom what we had done.

The hogs grew to be almost 200 lbs. Then one day, Dad came storming into the house cussing up a storm. For the first time in as many years as anyone could remember, Dad had agreed to sell a registered boar to someone. Only then did he discover that none of those pigs were boars. He eventually got over his anger. And Mom (who didn’t like being one of the people holding the larger hogs down) insisted that we start cutting the boars when they reached 50 lbs. Again, none of them ever died or got sick.

The purpose of this story is to illustrate that younger animals recover from serious wounds much faster and with fewer complication than older animals do.

For the record, I was taught that the best practice is to scrape the sharp edge of the knife against the cord to fray it. Because the wound is not a clean cut, the blood has something to stick to so it clots faster. Cutting straight thru the cord does little to stop bleeding. We never used any type of banding or cauterization on our animals; I am not sure why humans would have been treated any differently back then.

Castrati were usually created before their voices changed. I am not sure at what age a boy’s testicles drop, but the optimum time to perform the operation would be after they drop and before the boys reach full blown puberty. Undoubtedly, some of the boys would have died as a result of blood loss or infection. But their survival rate would have been significantly higher than a similar group of adult males.

Most of the castrati would have been up and moving about in a couple days. Since they didn’t understand the significance of their injury there would have been none of the mental trauma that an adult would have experienced. The event would have had about the same significance as a fever and probably far less significance than a broken arm for example. So it is not surprising that few of them remembered the event.

"Fraying the cords".. Now, that reminds me of Boy's Club part 1, but I bet you're right about that it's the best method to castrate.

"Nobody in their right mind would subject boys to such dangers".

Are they in their right mind when they "only" castrate them? Hehe! I do know what you're saying;)

I've heard the phrase "balls drop".. But what does that mean exactly, that a boy's balls drop when hitting puberty? You mean they get larger? At least I had mine in my sack even before puberty.. But I don't suppose you mean un-descended testicles anyway? I guess it's an American phrase I just hasn't gotten yep, huh=p

Twinsenboy,

I have also been puzzled by that matter of "dropping balls". Maybe people in the US actually wear their balls up in the inguinal canal until puberty hits them with a log, and !wham!, their balls drop! Who knows, Americans are strange animals anyway...

I suppose what's meant is the enlargement of testicles during puberty, which makes them heavier, and more apparent when warm and relaxed. From the locker room back when I was at school, I think I remember that my classmate's balls didn't hang as low before puberty as after it, but maybe I simply didn't look close enough. I also did a good amount of skinny dipping with friends, but that's not a good reference, because due to the cold water every testicle that knows how to behave itself will draw up as high as it can, regardless of pubertal status!

Maybe one of the "strange animals" mentioned above can take the strangeness out of this matter, and explain the situation?

It's not really 'enlargement', so much.

It referrs to the tendency of balls on pre-pubescent boys to be 'tight' up against the pubic bone. While when warm, like in a sauna or after a bath, a boys balls 'droop' like an adults, in general they tend to stay kinda nestled up high.

"Balls Dropping" just means they are larger and tend to hang in the bottom of the scrotum, rather than sit up 'high' as mentioned above.

If I may also add, it's really kind of a 'low brow', sorta 'redneck' phrase. It doesn't REALLY mean ANYthing; it's up there with "that boys' feelin' his wild oats" meaning fucking anything that moves or "Young, dumb, and full of cum" meaning ... well, pretty much all teenagers.

It's pure vernacular that has no real definition beyond something for 14 year olds to insult 12 year olds with.

My opinion

I see. But why should 12 y.o. be insulted by something they have no control over? I mean, you can only be admired or held responsible or insulted by something you did of your own free will, right? I guess our cultures are different.

Yeah, I noticed too how much larger and low-hanging all of our balls were in the school showers after pubert had set in And I'm still young and dumb and full of cum. In my teenage years I was too shy do to anything about that anyway..

seems that they were soaked in a hot bath and slits were made in their sacks ti tie off the sperm cords...they were given some strong drink to knock them out and help with the pain. I am still waiting for my own castration!

stevesd

Do you have a potential singing voice? Hehe!

No, I hope it's nothing serious, like you HAVE to have them removed or something like that. Everything is best if it's a choice