Any time I see the word "religion" in the subject line of a post, I purposely stay out of it. It's like jumping on a train track and grabbing the 3rd rail with both hands.

Losethem (imported) wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2010 5:30 pm Any time I see the word "religion" in the subject line of a post, I purposely stay out of it. It's like jumping on a train track and grabbing the 3rd rail with both hands.

That would not be nearly as dangerous as grabbing the third rail with one hand and one of the other two with the other hand.

Those last two posts were simply...

SHOCKING!

On second thoughts perhaps my vag validation theory is not particularly valid after all. At least it's not getting any love on here! But A-1, what you said about beautiful women is possibly spot on. If they've already lost their virginity at an early age then maybe some get to a point where they don't really need this validation anymore?

They would still need to be reminded that they are beautiful though!

Perhaps sex (and especially love) stuff is just harder to understand than the Irish!

Does anyone think (know?) that if you cancel out sex in a relationship that you are more likely to have less arguing, negotiating and bitching?

It was probably a mistake to call this a general discussion about religion!

Yes I have noticed it starting to wander.

Religion is something that is personal something you receive from your parents, meaning if they are "X" religion you are brain washed into that religion as well. Some people actually convert to a religion, others opt out of religion all together seeing it for what I believe is the real purpose, to control you and get some of your hard earned money. Its very good at targeting the poor, hit the people that can afford it the least with promises of a better life when you are dead because this one sucks.

Some people need to be told what to eat, how to pray, and the worst one of all, how many virgins you get when you die, give me a break, mostly its how much money to give.

In the words of the late great Robert A. Heinlein,

"History does not record anywhere at any time a religion that has any rational basis. Religion is a crutch for people not strong enough to stand up to the unknown without help. But, like dandruff, most people do have a religion and spend time and money on it and seem to derive considerable pleasure from fiddling with it."

and

"Men rarely (if ever) manage to dream up a god superior to themselves. Most gods have the manners and morals of a spoiled child."

Taken from Time Enough for Love - Intermission.

When science dates the Universe at about 13.5 Billion years and our Sun at about 8.5 and Earth about 8 Billion years, and that man arrived about 3.5 to 4 million years ago its hard to believe that some deity did it in 6 days. Mythology, every culture on earth every group or pocket of people has a mythology that will tell you how they came to be the chosen people of the earth, the Bible has Genesis. Other demi-gods came later. One other thing is true, about all religions, each has a founder that everything is based on and nothing has happened sense, The Jews had Moses, Christians Jesus, Muslims Mohammed and nothing has happened sense, all three are the visions of these three men controlling lives to this day, you can add others to that list of three, Joseph Smith, Jim Jones (but his religion died with him) and others, each leaving there mark on people and screwing them for all time. TV evangelists are the very worst of the bunch, they all say the same thing,

Don't forget to keep this ministry going, send money.

Yes, the real reason for religion, to take your money.

Religion aside, no matter what you do in life or what you believe, if you want to know the truth follow the money, now we know the real color of GOD, Green.

River

First of all...

Gregrowlerson, you seem to be a really beautiful person and in my humble opinion any incarnate lover who was lucky enough to become your "sweety" would be getting a fantastic bargain. Furthermore I think your motives for initiating this thread were very pure and earnest.

Second...

So you're a muslim...make the best of it, not the worst! You seem to indicate that it was only a kind of failure of self-esteem which motivated your conversion. May I suggest to you that it was providence, not your own free will, which moved you to relate to God...however sectarian or defective form of religion Islam may seem in terms of conventional ( and to tell you the truth, my own) wisdom.

Third,

I am neither a muslim nor a muslim basher of the "its just Islamofacism" variety. I do think there are theological difficlutlies with exoteric islam which make it suceptible to charges, on the highest theological level of "deontology"...i.e. being a mere philosophy of duty. Religion is about love, not duty. But having said that, if you dig deeper into your Islam, you will find that there is a God-of-love lurking behind the exoteric principle of duty. And when you emerse yourself in that wisdom, as exposited by the hetrodox love-theologians of Islam, some of whom, but not all, call themselves by the moniker "Sufis"...then you will get as a kind of gratuity a trancendental Lover who's embrace is eternal. This may put into perspective your struggles to find a fleshly lover on Earth. I wish you the best in that endeavor, but whatever the outcome, the matter is perhaps not as great in terms of your ultimate self-worth as you presume.

Fourth,

Ok, so this was "over the top" already...I hope the powers that be at EA wont shut down this thread on that account. Gregowlerson deserves a fair hearing.

loveableleopardy (imported) wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2010 10:23 pm On second thoughts perhaps my vag validation theory is not particularly valid after all. At least it's not getting any love on here! But A-1, what you said about beautiful women is possibly spot on. If they've already lost their virginity at an early age then maybe some get to a point where they don't really need this validation anymore?

They would still need to be reminded that they are beautiful though!

Perhaps sex (and especially love) stuff is just harder to understand than the Irish!

Does anyone think (know?) that if you cancel out sex in a relationship that you are more likely to have less arguing, negotiating and bitching?

It was probably a mistake to call this a general discussion about religion!

No, not as long as nobody starts proselytizing. Sure, Eromel-1 and River have a right to speak their minds, but just because they do so does not mean that anybody is wrong per se, however, some people believe some pretty weird stuff and sometimes laughing at them makes them worse.

loveableleopardy (imported) wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2010 10:23 pm Does anyone think (know?) that if you cancel out sex in a relationship that you are more likely to have less arguing, negotiating and bitching?

No. In fact, your mate should like sex if YOU do. That is what makes them a mate. The trick is to match frequency and timing with your mate.

Or, perhaps, pay more attention to your mate's needs.

...and for heaven's sake, do not write off the beautiful to avoid being a SHALLOW HAL.

Now this thread is starting to take shape!

River. Plenty of great takes from you on religion. Just a bit of a side topic for starters. Does anyone know with 100% certainty that Abraham was a real person? I have read a little about him. He is the so called founder of Judaism and therefore the latter two major religions. But for example, it's fact that Muhammad was real (not necessarily a prophet!), Jesus was real, Moses was real. Now Moses supposedly wrote at least some of the Torah which contained stories about Abraham and his discovery of God. But I'm interested to know if there is factual evidence as to Abraham's existence or whether he could have been a person that was just created by Moses and others in their stories?

That should at least start to get me back on track with the subject matter!

I still think that people pretty much just convert these days for marriage. Some people who are already religious change their religion also.

Targeting the less fortunate is definitely a big part of religion. Like you said, promising a better after life because this one sucks (on another topic I think it's interesting how much our language can be negative towards homosexuality......like the use of "suck" as a negative....it's just something that has crept into us.....been drilled into us over generations even if we're not homophobic! It's like "Jesus Christ" and "Holy Moses" even if we're not religious......I go off track and ramble, just what I do). My grandparents are fairly strong Christians. My parents broke away from that, though they still have a good relationship with their parents. My parents are very open minded and fair people. I'm pretty blessed to be their son.

See. "Blessed." Another religious word! There have been some good words and ideas that have flowed on from religion.

Most people on this site are American. Right? In Australia we even get some of your evangelists on our TV screens, though not in prime time! It's only the opinion of a fairly naive guy, but I think that there is more of a grab for cash in some parts of Christianity than there is in Islam. There is still a lot of control in Islam (heaps in some areas of it), but I don't think there is that sending around of the cash tray kind of thing/mentality like with Christianity. Islam encourages Muslims to give money, but this is to charity and/or to poor people. I'm not sure if there is as direct an encouragement to give money to their Mosques, but I could be wrong.

The way that most interpret (always a key word in religion) it is to restrict women, but in some ways I think that all of the Islamic obsession with hiding the female form is quite truthful. It's truthful in the sense of it being a great highlight of man's weakness really. I have spent almost five months living in a Muslim country and it was quite refreshing to not have sex thrown in your face all the time. Maybe the Western world has gone too far in this way. But at the same time I am open to people having their own freedom, so it's a fairly complicated issue.

Praying (which I used to do) is an interesting thing to, in that it can be quite relaxing. Which is of course the same as meditating pretty much. Occasionally now I do still pray/meditate......just not to God/Allah!

Yes, many people do derive pleasure from spending time and money on something that is without a rational basis.

Our Gods are mostly horrible when you think about it. Another slightly off track thing is the role of Jesus in the whole of Christianity. From my limited knowledge I believe that Jesus was a good person. I'm interested in how much people feel that the whole mythology side of things was his idea and how much of it was that of his disciples (some of which don't seem to have been quite so good!). There was even a documentary I saw once that went into a whole range of opinion/ideas as to how his life finished. One even had him travelling to India and finishing his life there (there was even some documented stuff). I found that idea intriguing because it would make sense that Jesus could say that he was bugging off to Asia and was not coming back, and then Mark, Paul etc could then create the whole mythology of his disappearance. Just a wild possibility!

Muhammad is much more complicated as to his 'goodness.' A fighter with some reputed 'interesting' sexual ideas. Actually some actions that I've read from him could be described as horrible. But maybe this thread will be shut down if I speak too much about the prophets.

Anyway I will risk that!

That they are screwing the lives of many people since is a good point. Some people live their lives in good and productive ways because of religion (the prophets). There are good things that can be taken out of religion. The big problem with it is that you can't disagree with anything that your prophet says. I think that society will always have religion. It would be nice if this became more of a tradition thing then a religious thing.

I think that more Muslims are really strong in their belief than Christians. In some ways this makes it more dangerous.

I see your point about the colour of God being green. But I don't fully agree. A lot of men don't care that much about being rich. But we do care about women. And women care about money. They aren't all gold diggers, but a rich man will always have a woman. Not necessarily the poor man. So that is the real link to God being green.

In years past we have talked about was Moses real or Jesus, etc. There is no proof that Moses ever existed, nothing except the Bible, that is not enough, needless to say that would hold true for all the people in the first several books of the bible which by extension includes Abraham and the lot.

There is more proof that Jesus existed but again other then the bible there is not much.

There is proof that Muhammad lived, but then again that took place much later.

Keep in mind the time line for them, about 1200 years from Moses to Jesus, and another 700 to Muhammad. Moses, wrote the first five books of the bible, which was handed down orally for generations, if Moses really lived as the bible says it would have been in the rule of Ramses II, who was a real leader of Egypt. The Egyptians kept good records but there is nothing of the events from Moses or of Moses himself in Egyptian history.

River

Highly recommend, Exodus Decoded

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exodus_Decoded

"The Exodus Decoded is a 2006 History Channel documentary created by Jewish Canadian filmmaker Simcha Jacobovici and the producer/director James Cameron."

The most wonderful point Simcha made was if two thousand years from World War 2, archeologist are looking for evidence of it and if they are off by fifty years, to 1990, they would find no evidence of World War 2.

I believe there was an Exodus from Egypt. Not as a matter of faith.

Just as I believe there was a World War 2.

AS far as the decedents of Ishmael, my cousins, it bothers me that one can only leave Islam via death. Being converted out of Islam is a lethal offense.

I believe this unifies their conservatives and moderates, like avoiding pork. No opting out allowed.

Let Moi know if mistaken.

Thanks