nonuts (imported) wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2010 8:14 am Neither of these "sources" speak about other car companies having some special throttle cut off, when the brake is pressed, could you please provide more information about this?

Well gosh golly gee...

SOURCE NUMBER ONE

http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/03 ... eleration/

March 4, 2010, 11:45 am

Brake Override: A Software Cure for Sudden Acceleration

By JIM MOTAVALLI

Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood on Tuesday.Mary F. Calvert for The New York Times Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood on Tuesday.

When Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood told a Congressional committee Tuesday, “We are looking at the possibility of recommending the brake override system in all newly manufactured automobiles,” he was giving weight to a technical solution to sudden acceleration that is on some cars, but by no means all of them.

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Dave (imported) wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2010 7:37 pm We think it is a good safety device,

” Mr. LaHood said, though he stopped short of saying that it would be mandated. His comment was about recommending the safety device, but many news articles interpreted that as possible regulation. “I was playing ‘whack a mole’ with that because the idea that it would be required had already gotten out in the ether,” said a Transportation Department’s spokeswoman, Olivia Alair. “’Recommend’ is correct.”

Override systems, long favored by German manufacturers like BMW, Audi, Mercedes-Benz and Volkswagen, and also used by Chrysler and Nissan, take over when the throttle is racing and the brake pedal is pushed hard, returning the engine to idle. Since most people instinctively brake when their cars go out of control, brake override systems could largely eliminate throttle problems on new vehicles.

On Feb. 22, Toyota said it would install brake override systems on the 2005-10 Tacoma, 2009-10 Venza and 2008-10 Sequoia “to provide an additional measure of confidence.” By the end of 2010, the company said, overrides would be incorporated into the future production of most models in the United States.

Toyota had earlier announced that the 2007-10 Camry, 2005-10 Avalon and three Lexus models would be so equipped. In a November press release, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said, “N.H.T.S.A. is particularly pleased that Toyota is taking this additional step.”

For some carmakers, brake override systems are part of the architecture. BMW was the first carmaker to use an electronic throttle — on the 750 model in 1988 — and it has had them on every car since 2001. Brake override systems have accompanied the company’s electronic throttles from the beginning, and the latest version of the technology was introduced in 2005. The BMW system has no hardware component — it’s all software — but despite that a company spokesman, Thomas Plucinsky, estimates the cost is “in the low hundreds” of dollars per car. “Software is expensive,” he said.

The brake override system is sophisticated. BMW wanted to allow for racing starts that include brake and gas applications at the same time, and for performance-oriented “heel-and-toe” driving. “We didn’t want it activated if you just touch the brake,” Mr. Plucinsky said. “So all those factors were worked into the programming.”

Despite being a supporter and installer of brake override systems, BMW is wary of regulations requiring them. “Regulations tend to be restrictive on how the engineering can be done,” Mr. Plucinsky said.

David Champion, director of automobile testing at Consumer Reports, agreed that mandating specific technology might not be a good idea. “A regulation could say that, in the event of a stuck throttle, the car has to be brought to a halt in a reasonable distance,” he said. “It would be mandating that the car has to perform in a certain way, not setting a specification.”

Mr. Champion said he has tested brake override systems in the Mercedes E-Class, the Volkswagen Jetta, Audi A4 and the Dodge Ram 1500, and all performed well. “I think it’s a good idea,” he said. “It works, and it’s effective.” He cautioned, however, that brake override systems are of no use in cases of drivers confusing the brake and gas pedals.

SOURCE NUMBER TWO

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/econom ... ready.html

List of vehicles that do not have brake-override systems

I included this in a long posting Tuesday, but it's worth republishing on its own:

Under congressional grilling, Toyota agreed to add brake-override systems to all new vehicles beginning with 2011 models. A brake-override system actually overrides the accelerator, not the brakes. If a driver hits the brakes while a vehicle is accelerating, the vehicle's computer thinks the driver would rather stop than go. The brake-override system cuts power to the engine, preventing the kind of runaway acceleration several Toyota drivers have complained about. Some automakers already have brake-override systems, but many do not. Below is a list of models that do not have brake-override systems, and those that plan to add one soon:

-- AM General

-- Acura

-- Buick

-- Ford (will add beginning with 2011 models)

-- GMC

-- Hummer

-- Honda

-- Jaguar

-- Land Rover

-- Lexus (will add beginning with 2011 models)

-- Lincoln (will add beginning with 2011 models)

-- Mazda

-- Mercury (will add beginning with 2011 models)

-- Mitsubishi

-- Pontiac

-- Saab

-- Saturn

-- Scion (will add beginning with 2011 models)

-- Subaru

-- Toyota (will add beginning with 2011 models)

-- Volvo

Makes that already have brake-override systems:

-- Audi

-- BMW

-- Bentley

-- Bugatti

-- Dodge

-- Ferrari

-- Fiat

-- Hyundai (recent models)

-- Infiniti

-- Jeep

-- Kia (recent models)

-- Lamborghini

-- Mini

-- Maserati

-- Maybach

-- McLaren

-- Mercedes-Benz

-- Nissan

-- Porsche

-- Rolls-Royce

-- Volkswagen

-- Smart

SOURCE: Edmunds.com.

OK. Thank you, so I am a little bit confused by what you'd said "

Dave (imported) wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2010 7:37 pm All of the American cars manufacturers and most foreign car manufacturers have this feature. I have to wonder why Toyota didn't add it.

" Since Ford and General Motors do not have these systems and they are "American" cars. Also "most" foreign car manufactures don't have these systems either, and in many cases they are only on very recent models as well (Chrysler for example only has it due to it's previous ownership by Daimler). It seems to me that Toyota isn't alone as you're post intends to suggest.

The thread I think you were looking for is here: http://www.eunuch.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=17518

The reason they didn't add brake overrrides is that unless you do lots of programming it screws with performance.

My Chrysler will permit both brake and accelerator while stopped in the middle of a hill (driving up, obviously) and that is an exception to the override. It's not easy to program that into a chip.

Also, my Chrysler gets its best mileage when I use the cruise control as much as I can. That's because all that computerized accelerations is designed to do that. AGain not an easy programming job because the programmer is not just opening or closing the throttle but using performance curves for engine and transmission.

Anti-lock brakes are the same. They require lots of programming and electronic controls.

Fair enough, it's complicated. But what you'd said was that Toyota was some oddball company that was unique in not providing this feature. From the list that is hardly the case, also brake overrides themselves can be a bit tricky. Just about anything CAN be put on a car to make it as idiot proof as possible, the question I am trying to get to the bottom of here, is this: Why do we allow IDIOTS to drive?