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Re: What's With The French

Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 11:35 am
by bobover3 (imported)
Is there really a broad dislike of France and the French? Let's look at the history.

England and France were rivals and enemies starting in the Middle Ages. Back then, countries could only conveniently war on their near neighbors, so England and France had at it since at least the Norman Conquest in 1166 AD.

In the 18th century, the English and French factions in America fought the French & Indian War. During the American Revolution, France was the closest ally of the US. Benjamin Franklin spent years in Paris cultivating the alliance. For the French, this was part of the game of Big Power Politics they had played against England for centuries. As England's enemy, we automatically became France's friend. The Marquis de Lafayette even raised a French army and brought it here to support our Revolution. Lafayette was second only to George Washington in popularity. When Lafayette revisited the US in 1824, he was feted by adoring crowds across the country. During the presidency of John Adams, perhaps the greatest controversy was whether we should remain allied to France even after the French Revolution. The Alien and Sedition Acts were intended largely to suppress dissent on this issue. Thomas Paine, firebrand writer of the American Revolution, even went to France to express his continued enthusiasm.

During the Civil War, the English government backed the Confederacy, seeking to undermine America, but France backed the Union. Despite all this, the American majority remained ethnically British, and dislike of France was part of the English tradition. This dislike was fanned by the Quai d'Orsay (France's State Department), which continued the old Big Power game of rivalry with England. It was French policy (I refer to the government, not necessarily the people) to oppose "anglophone" interests and culture. This policy was at least a thousand years old, and continued on autopilot into the 20th century.

France saw itself (still sees itself) as a Big Power locked in a struggle for primacy with England. (No accident that the two official languages of the UN are English and French.) The US is part of the "anglophone" world whose power the French sought to humble.

Of course, all this looks a bit silly now that France has been eclipsed on the world stage, and England's strength is now its ties to the US. But ancient traditions die slow deaths, so France and the ethnic English in America still blow on the embers of their rivalry from time to time. Yet America came to the aid of France in both the First and Second World Wars, suffering vast casualties both times. We didn't have to do that, so it's hard to claim the US has been hostile to France. The French government long took pleasure in resisting the US government, believing that showed France was still Great. Sad. French policy finally caught up with history with the election of Sarkozy.

Re: What's With The French

Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 2:02 am
by MacTheWolf (imported)
Twenty years ago, my mother took a tour of Europe and saw 9 countries. Most people in most countries were pleasant to her. However, as my mom told it, one nation treated her like crap and the other went out of their way to be friendly and helpful.

The nation that treated her so well was Italy. Friendly waiters, bus drivers, taxi drivers, hotel staff. Mom loved the Italians.

The nation that treated her, and many American tourists like crap, was France.

She said the French were rude, arrogant and went out of their way to be a PAIN IN THE ASS all because we Yanks don't know how to speak frog.

We rescued France in two World Wars. If they get involved in another war, I say let them sink or swim on their own.

What is the most popular word in French international diplomacy? Surrender.

Re: What's With The French

Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:31 am
by Misha999 (imported)
MacTheWolf (imported) wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2010 2:02 am We rescued France in two World Wars. If they get involved in another war, I say let them sink or swim on their own.
Admiral de Grasse sat off the Virginia coast with the French fleet and kept the British from evacuating Yorktown. Thus giving Washington a victory and secured our Independence. I've never heard one Frenchman crow about saving our bacon.
MacTheWolf (imported) wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2010 2:02 am What is the most popular word in French international diplomacy? Surrender.
The first serious defeat of German forces in WWII occurred May 28 1940 in Narvik Norway. They were driven out of the city by the forces of the French Foreign Legion the 13th Demi-Brigade de la Legion Etrangere.

M

Re: What's With The French

Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 6:42 am
by JustAGuy (imported)
I know maybe 25 or 30 french people. Only one of them is pleasant to be around the other 24-29 are total jack-asses that ought to get the HELL out of my town. They want to be total dicks to American tourists cause we can't speak their language, well if thats the case they need to learn to speak AMERICAN ENGLISH when the come here. I have been to Italy once and honestly I loved it, very hospitable people over there, if I ever moved to another country that would be my first choice to live it just from what I experience there that short 3 days I was there. Great food, great people, very comfortable, and of course very beautiful. Also very rich in history and art. If I had the money I'd move over there in an instant.

Re: What's With The French

Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 8:05 am
by MacTheWolf (imported)
Misha999 (imported) wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:31 am The first serious defeat of German forces in WWII occurred May 28 1940 in Narvik Norway. They were driven out of the city by the forces of the French Foreign Legion the 13th Demi-Brigade de la Legion Etrangere.

M

I salute the French Foreign Legion for that action and many others. However, having said that, I condemn the Legion for their numerous atrocities committed in putting down the resistance to the French Occupation of Algeria.

Re: What's With The French

Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 8:31 am
by Riverwind (imported)
MacTheWolf (imported) wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2010 8:05 am I salute the French Foreign Legion for that action and many others. However, having said that, I condemn the Legion for their numerous atrocities committed in putting down the resistance to the French Occupation of Algeria.

Remembering of course that the French Foreign Legion was made up of people who were criminals or foreign nationals and they served to get French citizenship.

River

Re: What's With The French

Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 8:38 am
by JoaoGenerico (imported)
I have heard all those kinds of complaints (mutatis mutandis) about Americans.

Frankly, this kind of gross generalization might be a way of venting the frustrations of the challenges of cultural shock, but it reflects badly on the person making the prejudicial statement.

At the very least, it is a symptom of painful provincialism.

Re: What's With The French

Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 11:32 am
by jacques0 (imported)
I'm just wondering who is the "bad mouthed" here, I guess, you have lost control of yourself and let your french side run wild. "Who has never sinned throw the first stone" . This kind of speach shouldn't take place here. Shall I remember you this is the Eunuch Archive here, a site dedicated to eunuchs, castration or transgenders. To my opinion, any political and alike threads other than these should be banned along with those who started them.

Re: What's With The French

Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 11:43 am
by NaziNuts (imported)
The French are OK, good wines and whatnot, but oh so sensitive.

Take over their country and all pissed off they get. Borrow some wiggly impressionist art and all pissed off they get. Ask them to help fix the Haiti mess they created hundreds of years ago and all pissed off they get.

Pronounce merci mercy and all pissed off they get.

Say Lay Vee.

- NN

Re: What's With The French

Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 12:43 pm
by devi (imported)
My mother once told me this when I was a kid: The Germans had invented the accordion. But nobody could figure out how to play the contraption and so they ended up going oom-pah oom-pah oom-pah all night long. So then the French got ahold of the accordion and they were able to figure out how to play it softly and gently and with a lot more sentimentallity and romanticism. And this they exported to all of Latin America and most of the world. But when the Mexicans got ahold of that contraption they were drinking too much beer and they also ended up going oom-pah oom-pah oom-pah all night long.