I have always wondered about this from a fantasy story idea. the concept of re-balling a eunuch. Ungelding a horse. unsteering a bull.

What would cause this? an act of a god? medical technology? both? neither?

interesting story idea.

Eunuchorn (imported) wrote: Tue Dec 01, 2009 6:35 pm I have always wondered about this from a fantasy story idea. the concept of re-balling a eunuch. Ungelding a horse. unsteering a bull.

What would cause this? an act of a god? medical technology? both? neither?

interesting story idea.

Magic! --FLO--

Milkman (imported) wrote: Tue Dec 01, 2009 1:04 pm The term "detransitioning is being used for MTF transsexuals who return to their male status, but I would like to add that there seem to be a fair number of " former eunuchs", eunuchs who after castration reject the eunuch label, disassociate themselves from the eunuch support groups such as this one and apparently resume living as males. I have known four men in this category.. all of whom were castrated in their 20's. usually this takes place a year or so after castration. Has anyone else noticed this form of " detransitioning" among eunuchs?

The first thing that came to my mind was...Why did they get castrated? If it was cancer or another health issue, perhaps what has happened is that they don't want to accept the eunuch label so steer clear of those of us who have accepted and looked forward to our condition. They want to be "normal" in their mind and that means stay away from the groups that remind them of their status. I agree with others, the older the male, the more at ease he is with his new lifestyle. Perhaps the best thing is that anyone who knows someone acting this way continue to be friends with them but don't push the eunuch label on them.

Quite an interesting question. Kristoff said that being a Eunuch does not make it impossible to be "male" and I agree and hope that this is correct. Without regular HRT my life becomes a living hell.

I think its also true that once you've gotten up on the operating table and your testicles fall in the pan your a "eunuch" no matter how much HRT you do. At least if we use the classic definition. I think there is a certain class system however. No Hormone Eunuchs versus Estrogen Eunuchs or Testosterone Eunuchs. It also seems to be that Gender (or is it sex) starts to become less easily defined. Do Balls make the man? Do silicone ones count? Does the actual hormones running in your bloodstream make the man or the man a woman or the woman a man? I think so...

I tend to think that what ever "fuel" you use be it Estrogen or Testosterone can define you as male or female. As to the idea that a third sex (an asexual castrate) being part of this? I agree.

As a transsexual, transition has different meanings. There are different levels of transition.There is a stark contrast between transitioning one's life, which means to come into the open and live one's life as the target gender, and transitioning one's body, which means to physically and permanenty alter one's body, such as hair removal or growth, breast growth or removal, and gender reassignment surgery. One can detransition from one, but not so much the other.

Once one has their breasts, testicles, penis, ovaries, uterus or facial hair removed, it does not come back. One can not detransition from these transitions. So what we are really talking about is detransitioning from how one lives their life.

While "eunuchism" can be considered a lifestyle, it can also be considered a gender. So I believe it's important to know what it is we are talking about when we talk about detransitioning. In my opinion, an eunuch is a person that has had their testicles or their testicles and penis removed AND do not take male or female hormones to compensate.

Now, in this regard I know transsexuals that are in fact actually eunuchs. While they may continue to live their lives in female roles, they no longer have testicles or a penis and have stopped taking female or male hormones. They are still socially transitioned into their gender, they are no longer physically transitioned into their gender.

So for me, I am not so sure the term detransition really applies to eunuchs. I guess for those who live the "eunuch lifestyle", whatever that may be, one could no longer identify as an eunuch. However, to really detransition they would need to also take testosterone.

Now this is where it gets tricky. My experience here has taught me that many people who have had their testicles removed but are taking testosterone to replace the lost hormones, still identify as eunuchs. So if the simple act of not having testicles makes one a eunuch, then one could not detransition by simply taking hormones and not telling people they have no testicles.

I guess I need to have someone take me to school on this issue because I am somewhat confused.

Elizabeth

Seems to me , that no matter the disposition of HRT, if it ain't got balls its a eunuch. The lable is uncomfortable to some, but historically and factually , a male that has been castrated is a eunuch.

For this eunuch , the idea of not using HRT, and all the charming side effects that can cause is simply not an option. Of the eunuchs I have personally known, only one has never had HRT, and he was born without testicles. That descision to avoid HRT is one that he is quite happy with , although his own physiology creates some sexual desire, and he is occasionally capable of erection.

All the others I know , have tried a period without HRT, and found the side effects to be unbearable. Seems that the norm for that is around 6 months.

I know there are some here who truly enjoy their testosterone deprived state, and I suppose if your real desire is total asexuality that is fine, and certainly not for me to criticize, but the vast majority seem to prefer HRT, even if in small doses.

There are many reasons to be a eunuch, and therefore many ways to live after it occurs.

As to the age thing, I used to be quite friendly with a guy who was voluntarily castrated to please a partner. At the time he was really into the idea, and stayed that way for several years. Once the relationship was over, he regretted doing it for a time. It was much more about acceptance from new partners than any personal feeling, and he soon learned that most didn't really care if he had balls or not.

There is a certain stigma that seems attached to eunuchs that in many cases is totally unfounded. When I was castrated I was totally honest with all that I know, and to date no one has reacted in a negative way, I am "out" as a eunuch, and no one ever even mentions it. Its just a fact of life.

So, once a eunuch always a eunuch, its just a matter of personal preference if you do the HRT thing or not ......

Raymar

What about women who have their ovaries removed ?

Is there a term for female eunuch?

If you loose your sex hormone producing organs (or never had any) is that alone what classifies you as a eunuch?

Or do you just need to loose the hormone and not the organ to be classified as a eunuch?

If the only factor is a very low hormone level which causes one to loose their sex drive and/or create loss of hormone negative health factors, then There are a lot of men and women who are naturally have such a low hormone level, not by choice or desire, that they could technically be called eunuch.

It just seems there needs to be better terminology for anyone who has no sex organs vs anyone who has sex organs but has a hormone level that is so low that they are, for lack of a better term: Virtual Eunuchs.

I think we need to distinguish between three separate things that seem to be tied up in the original question.

One is the case of people who were castrated for whatever reason, but don't identify themselves as anything other than 'men who happen to have no balls'. In this case there's no real 'transition' involved in the sense that they don't consider being a eunuch to be an essential part of their identify. (Obviously there's a physical transition, but not a social one.)

The second scenario is where a person has been castrated as part of what they view as a transition into a new sort of identity, or to change their body such that it conforms to their psychological sense of (gender/sex) identity. Inevitably a certain number of people who undergo this will find that the new identity doesn't suit them as well as the one they transitioned from did, and so return, physically (HRT) and/or socially, to their origin sex/gender designation. To these people I think it is appropriate to apply the term 'detransitioning', as they are in fact retracing the path they came, to the extent that that's physically or socially possible. (Others might go on to transition to some other identity.)

The third scenario would be people who have been castrated and identify themselves as eunuchs, but who just don't participate in the Eunuch Archive or similar communities because their friendships are build around other social identities and interests. They might temporarily post here prior to and while they're transitioning, but afterwards drift away because they're not as interested or invested in their eunuch identity than they are in, say, chess or fishing or baseball. These people are still eunuchs, they just don't participate in our community for the same reasons that post-op transsexuals might not continue to participate in similar trans communities: their primary associations with people are just based on other identities or interests, or on different sites of identification, such as their local communities.

There are those like myself who feel like eunuchs because of low testostrone (hypogonalism) and still are intact.

ghostautumn (imported) wrote: Wed Dec 02, 2009 10:10 pm I think we need to distinguish between three separate things that seem to be tied up in the original question.

One is the case of people who were castrated for whatever reason, but don't identify themselves as anything other than 'men who happen to have no balls'....

The second scenario is where a person has been castrated as part of what they view as a transition into a new sort of identity, or to change their body such that it conforms to their psychological sense of (gender/sex) identity......

The third scenario would be people who have been castrated and identify themselves as eunuchs, but who just don't participate in the Eunuch Archive or similar communities because their friendships are build around other social identities and interests.....

I find this discussion extremely interesting. We just to remember that they're all social constructs. There was certainly a time in the past when a eunuch was anyone who'd had their balls - often their entire package - cut off. Those without balls or external genitalia were also without male androgens (testosterone). There were no dependable artificial hormones 'til Shering's (pharmaceutical company in Berlin) Afolf Butenandt and Ciba's (pharmceutical company in Zurich) Leopold Ruzicka successfully synthesized and began mass-producing artificial equivalents in the late 1930s - and for which they deservedly received the Nobel Prize for Chemistry in 1939. Since then it's been possible to retain complete masculinity w/o testicles.

In the case of this eunuch, I can say I was initially shocked when I was advised by a senior urologist at a major US teaching hospital at age 24 that I should consider having my testicles amputated. He advised that I had a congenital defect (almost non-existent cords connecting my testicles to my body), the only real remedy for which was removal. However, he also advised at the same time that all was not lost, as artificial hormones would allow me to retain my masculinity. The only major downside to the recommended bilateral orchiectomy procedure would be sterility. After thinking about it, I almost went back to him a week later for the procedure. However, I also took to heart his advice to hang on to my testicles as long as I was able to cope with the discomfort. I had them removed only after I had sired a son. While I always knew it was optional, I never really considered going without hormones. I'm thus a physical eunuch in that I've had my testicles removed, but not a eunuch in the sense I'm still totally male, but ballless.

In terms of social constructs, I think many of us know that gender itself is a social construct. The South African female athlete that was allowed to keep her gold medal in running despite being found to be a hermaphrodite probably has more testosterone than I ever had or have now. I'm a male for 2 reasons: 1) I possess a penis with which I was born; and 2) I ingest male androgens.