Wow !

moi621 (imported) wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2009 9:08 pm Someone did not like my post.

I don't mean via the comments above.

I mean my reputation evaporated with no note in the CP

Not me. I posted what I thought about your post. And I really did think Quest For Fire was the commercial movie about the cavemen discovering fire. If we are talking about two different movies... OOOOPS!

I take back the oral sex digs. That was a cheap shot, not at you but at the movie.

I didn't do anything with your reputation points.

Riverwind (imported) wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2009 9:13 pm get some stainless steel plates, about 20 should do it, Notch the corner of all of them then reverse half of them so you can run a positive rod throw one have and the negative throw the other, secure the bottom with plastic or some other non conductive material. then hook a car battery to the positive and negative ends. Now this device goes in a vat of water, sea water or distilled, if distilled you need to add something like lye, the plates are completely under water, and you should have a seal over the top. When you put connect that 12v battery the electricity flowing throw the stainless steel plates in the water with lye causes a chemical reaction, it produces HH2 gas, Hydrogen. The hydrogen rises to a tube that is fed into the fuel intake. In our experiment we lit a match and watch it explode at the end of the tube. It was a flame. And best of all the waist product is water. You don't need nuclear power to produce it, it can be produced in your own car as you drive down the road. and you fill up your tank with the hose. Simple yes and no, there is still a lot of work to do but the science is good science, it works.

If you doubt this there are working models on line, go look them up for yourself. Look under HHO fuel.

River

Well, yes but it's the old thermodynamics laws that get you...

At the best, you can only get as much power out as you put in with the battery. But entropy takes some of that energy away from the product. It's like friction or electrical resistance. And then when you burn the hydrogen, you lose more of that original energy from the battery. The conversion from water to hydrogen and oxygen and back again to water is not 100%, it is something less.

I'm not saying this to crap all over a nice idea. Hell, I wish it was a straightforward as you describe, but unfortunately, Thermodynamics takes a toll, a tax, a price. Remember, I am a scientist and I went to school to learn power cycles and thermodynamics. It's a beast of a taskmaster.

Every power cycle, every engine, every motor, every generating plant has loss due to entropy and that is one of the sad facts of life. I wish it were otherwise.

Dave (imported) wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2009 10:54 pm Not me. I posted what I thought about your post. And I really did think Quest For Fire was the commercial movie about the cavemen discovering fire. If we are talking about two different movies... OOOOPS!

I take back the oral sex digs. That was a cheap shot, not at you but at the movie.

I didn't do anything with your reputation points.

Dave, I certainly did not think you attacked my reputation anonymously.

Honestly, Quest For Fire got write ups in major Science magazine articles in its' time. It was a serious effort. Especially the large physical differences between some four clans displayed. The hero's people already had language, they just hadn't figured on, camp fire stories. Ideas traveling faster then people could. Like the Clovis point. I thought it was a better depiction then the Darryl Hannah one, even it it had - the young, Darryl Hannah. Yeah, Raquel Welsh. Victor Mature did one too, I think.

ramblin' Moi

suffering shock from the holocaustal loss of my reputation.

Moi did not not say anything to deserve that reputation hit. I helped him get some back with a positive hit. It would be a nice jesture if others would do the same.

Negative reputation is not nice and especially if the giver does not identify them self. I don't believe in playing the negative reputation game and will not give it even when others are insulting or over critical toward me. We are not here for the purpose of being nasty to each other.

Noi was over critical of me for my post in the Political Forum but then apologized and tried to make amends.

Please help Moi to recoup his unfair loss.

The law of thermodynamics is certainly a useful concept and practical in many ways, but it pertains to closed systems only. As the universe itself is dynamic and multidimensional, nothing totally closed and separate exists.

A lot of fruitful research on "free energy" has been done. The mathematical and theoretical concepts are all there and I have actually met people who have built machines that use this unlimited energy source which is driving the universe itself.

I previously posted links to videos on HHO, which is NOT electrolysis, but a gentle and somewhat indirect way to use this power through the electromagnetic activation of water. There are lots of different approaches.

Just two more links to interesting pages:

Tom Bearden: http://cheniere.org/

Pure Energy Systems wiki: http://peswiki.com/energy/News

No doubt free energy is the future, and it could be our present if "the powers" wouldn't use the energy business to tax and control us.

Airin_TS (imported) wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2009 8:01 am The law of thermodynamics is certainly a useful concept and practical in many ways, but it pertains to closed systems only. As the universe itself is dynamic and multidimensional, nothing totally closed and separate exists.

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That statement indicates a misunderstanding of Thermodynamics. However, no one will understand if I explain why.

The best I can do is to restate the principle in the form of "you can't get something for nothing." Nothing in the universe violates that statement.

moi621 (imported) wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2009 11:37 pm Dave, I certainly did not think you attacked my reputation anonymously.

Honestly, Quest For Fire got write ups in major Science magazine articles in its' time. It was a serious effort. Especially the large physical differences between some four clans displayed. The hero's people already had language, they just hadn't figured on, camp fire stories. Ideas traveling faster then people could. Like the Clovis point. I thought it was a better depiction then the Darryl Hannah one, even it it had - the young, Darryl Hannah. Yeah, Raquel Welsh. Victor Mature did one too, I think.

ramblin' Moi

suffering shock from the holocaustal loss of my reputation.

I attacked your reputation points, hell someone needs to take the blame it might as well be me.

Actually its most likely something the boss is doing with the system, I would not worry about it one way or the other.

River

Dave (imported) wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2009 11:05 pm Well, yes but it's the old thermodynamics laws that get you...

At the best, you can only get as much power out as you put in with the battery. But entropy takes some of that energy away from the product. It's like friction or electrical resistance. And then when you burn the hydrogen, you lose more of that original energy from the battery. The conversion from water to hydrogen and oxygen and back again to water is not 100%, it is something less.

I'm not saying this to crap all over a nice idea. Hell, I wish it was a straightforward as you describe, but unfortunately, Thermodynamics takes a toll, a tax, a price. Remember, I am a scientist and I went to school to learn power cycles and thermodynamics. It's a beast of a taskmaster.

Every power cycle, every engine, every motor, every generating plant has loss due to entropy and that is one of the sad facts of life. I wish it were otherwise.

Well it stands to reason that you don't like the idea of using rare earth magnets to generate power either, so I will not even go there.

OBYW, the head of the US patten office around 1900 I think quit saying that everything that could be invented has been invented.

Maybe its time to think outside the box, toss out old ideas and start fresh, you might just find something new and exciting but then again someone out there will always tell you why you can't do it.

River

Riverwind (imported) wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2009 3:10 pm Well it stands to reason that you don't like the idea of using rare earth magnets to generate power either, so I will not even go there...

...

River

No, I like rare earth magnets. I think Dyson uses them in the motor of their hand-held vacuum.

I wasn't being personal with my comments.

I've seen lots of proposals for equipment that violates the laws of thermodynamics. They were submitted for funding and we'd have to evaluate them. It's not personal with me. It's merely a statement of fact. I once had to turn over my notes of a "Request for Proposal" that was frighteningly impossible. It ended up in court and thankfully, I wasn't asked to be the expert witness. I didn't need that headache.

No one should stop presenting ideas just because they might be impossible or impractical. Lots of ideas are discarded for those reasons. I once screened 100 compounds for catalytic effect and found none. Another time, we did exotic spectroscopy on coal ash and found nothing useful other than a great new bunch of analytical techniques. That's the nature of science and engineering. I had lots of ideas that got shot down.

I had a coworker who was the biggest asshole fuckup dingleberry jerk in the world. Just an utter goofball as a person but a good engineer. However, whne he proved that the design of a preheater was bad, no one said argued with him or said anything nasty and mean. We thanked him and gave an award because he saved us money. He serves as the example of what a good thermodynamics and engineering study can do with a design. We got data where we would have got junk thanks to him. He saved our asses on a million dollar project by discovering what could not be done ahead of time.

So don't take it personally, just try again.

Dave (imported) wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2009 4:22 pm So don't take it personally, just try again.

Dave, I never take anything here personal.

River