Hi guys,

This is thesnowman123. My email was tagged as someone elses because of their similiarity in nature but all is resolved now with the Site Moderator. Thanks for all your replies. I will keep in touch.

I have been taking androcur and tamoxifen for almost six months. I started with just androcur but had some breast development and began taking tamoxifen within a few weeks to counter it. I started with 10mg but increased it to 20mg when I saw no change. Now the larger dose of tamoxifen has reversed any breast enlargement. I also notice a weight loss rather than a weight gain. I take 50mg of androcur with the 20mg of tamoxifen, split in half, twice a day. I'm pretty much sexless now but still able to have sex when my wife wants it.

unencumbered (imported) wrote: Sun Jun 14, 2009 5:46 pm I have been taking androcur and tamoxifen for almost six months. I started with just androcur but had some breast development and began taking tamoxifen within a few weeks to counter it. I started with 10mg but increased it to 20mg when I saw no change. Now the larger dose of tamoxifen has reversed any breast enlargement. I also notice a weight loss rather than a weight gain. I take 50mg of androcur with the 20mg of tamoxifen, split in half, twice a day. I'm pretty much sexless now but still able to have sex when my wife wants it.

Hi nonamesplease,

That is great news. Would you consider yourself castrated? Thanks.

DancingApples (imported) wrote: Sun Jun 14, 2009 6:06 pm Hi nonamesplease,

That is great news. Would you consider yourself castrated? Thanks.

You can not go by feelings to know if you are really at castration levels. Only real hormone tests can tell you at what level you are at. People think that they are an eunuch from the feelings but can be still in the normal range of hormones when tested.

DancingApples (imported) wrote: Sun Jun 14, 2009 6:06 pm Hi nonamesplease,

That is great news. Would you consider yourself castrated? Thanks.

I agree with Bobbie that one should to have his T level checked rather than just basing one's results on feelings alone. I plan on having my level tested again at the end of my six month milestone to see how far I have progressed. My three-month level showed only borderline normal.

Hi everyone,

My Spiro shipment arrived today and I have made a doctor appointment in regards to it. My main concern is feminization and somehow maintain a low testosterone level while not stepping over that line. If anyone have data with regards to this, I would appreciate it. I was planning starting with a low dose of 25mg. Also will do a bloodwork after 2 weeks or so. Thanks, bye.

25 mg of Spironolactone is a pretty miniscule dose. And the main uses of this drug is as a potassium-sparing diuretic and an aldosterone antagonist, not as an antiandrogen. It has unlabeled uses for treatment of hirsuitism due to its mild antiandrogenic properties, palliation of symptoms of PMS, treatment of familial male precocious puberty and short term treatment for acne. I was chemically castrated for over 2 1/2 years mostly with monthly injections of Depo Provera and 100mg daily of Spiro. I don't think 25 mg a day will do much to significantly lower your testosterone. Diuretic doses are usually 100mg/day but range from 25-200 and 400mg for hyperaldosteronism.

Above is from Lippincott's Nursing Drug Guide

clysmaniac (imported) wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2009 2:47 pm 25 mg of Spironolactone is a pretty miniscule dose. And the main uses of this drug is as a potassium-sparing diuretic and an aldosterone antagonist, not as an antiandrogen. It has unlabeled uses for treatment of hirsuitism due to its mild antiandrogenic properties, palliation of symptoms of PMS, treatment of familial male precocious puberty and short term treatment for acne. I was chemically castrated for over 2 1/2 years mostly with monthly injections of Depo Provera and 100mg daily of Spiro. I don't think 25 mg a day will do much to significantly lower your testosterone. Diuretic doses are usually 100mg/day but range from 25-200 and 400mg for hyperaldosteronism.

Above is from Lippincott's Nursing Drug Guide

Hi clysmaniac,

From my research, an average healthy male(22-34 yr) produces testosterone at a rate of 3.7 ± 2.2 mg/day. In a study that was done, patients(older gentlemen, ~50yrs) were Spironolactone(25mg) on a daily basis and some encountered gynecomastia after several months which I took as 3months for the most minimum. So you see, continually taking Spiro can produce a gradual decline in ones testosterone levels. But I am not sure about this because of the age discrepancy and I would suppose everyone would react differently. Additional data would be beneficial. Thanks.

Sorry. Haven't checked in on the board for some time. DancingApples, here are the responses as best I can:

I believe I am consistent with all the advice on this board about taking the lowest possible dose of any chemicals to achieve our desired results. If your objective is like mine, i.e., greatly reduced libido with minimal feminization, then you could slowly rachet down your dosage as I did. While everybody's responses to drugs are different, I can share with you only my own dosage and experience.

I have been on Androcur at a sustaining level of only 25 mg/day, plus Tamoxifen at 20 mg/day. On and off, I have been on these meds for several years.

By now, I basically had no libido at all. I might get the "urge" once a month or so. I can cum but with much difficulty, which I never forced myself to achieve. And I was able to keep away any pains or growth in my nipples or breasts though there has been a little bit of breast growth from before I started Tamoxifen.

Overall, I am satisfied with these results.

Now, I personally don't really care much about what my real testosterone levels are. To me, whether I qualify as a certified eunuch is too academic. My only objective, regardless if I am strictly speaking a eunuch or not, is getting close to the sexual responses of a eunuch but with minimal feminization. But for your interest, I did have my testosterone tested over a year ago. They are well below those at "normal" but I would not say I have gotten to true eunuch level. (I can't remember the actual numbers. I just remembered the alarm bells my very curious and confused doctor raised when reviewing my blood test reports with me, not knowing that I had been on Androcur.)

In fact, for the past 2 months, I have phased myself off of both drugs completely, giving my body a break. And so far, I have not seen much return of libido or feminization. So, I am happy with the way things are.

My previous suggestion is to first understand what state of sexuality do you want, so that after achieving that state at whatever level of Androcur + Tamoxifen, try to reduce these drugs to the lowest level barely enough to help you maintain yourself at that satisfactory state.

The reason for trying to get to the lowest possible dosage is from my very own experience.

Thanks to the significant reduction of my testesterone, I am developing a mild amnesia. A year ago, when I got these blood test results, I stopped my Androcur and my red blood cell count eventually returned to normal. This time around, I stopped both meds as I await the same recovery, which seems to be taking longer than before.

Also, I also got tired easily, and since I had no more energy to do exercises, I began to gain weight. I also got very emotional, easily crying my eyes out with the slightest trigger while I was on Androcur.

In other words, Androcur is one strong med. It has been linked to a number of possible side effects (which I suggest you do a bit of Googling through authoritative medical websites for some professional info -- instead of just reading posts by amateurs like me). Other effects are simply caused by the drastic reduction of testosterone. Some damaging or undesirable effects may well be irreverseable. Each person reacts differently to these meds, So it is generally better to be safe than sorry.

As I am typing this post, I have CNN on the TV, repeating stories about Michael Jackson's probably cause of death from overuse of prescription drugs. These stories are certainly a very real and vivid reminder to be extra vigilant for us who take presecription drugs without medical doctors supervision so that we do get to live to enjoy whatever "eunuch" lifestyle we tried to achieve with these chemical castration meds.