MMR Vaccines and a faked study of the risks involved

[chilliwilli (imported)]

While I suspect that we will eventually discover that “autism” is a catch-all category for several different disorders, there is one recent article that shows an interesting correlation between fetal testosterone levels and autistic behavior in children at ages 6 to 10. Correlation does NOT equal causation in either direction, but it ought to bring attention to the subject and lead to further research to see if there is some sort of causal relationship.

The study encompassed 235 children for whom fetal testosterone had been measured for entirely other medical purposes. Their mothers were quizzed about autistic-type behavior in these children at a much later date. NONE of the children actually has been diagnosed with autism, so this is yet one more level removed from a causal study. Girls who were exposed to higher testosterone levels in utero were more likely to demonstrate autistic-type traits than those exposed to lower levels. Boys exposed to higher testosterone levels were also more likely to demonstrate autistic-type traits. When both populations were shown on a scatter diagram, they clustered along a line running from low T/low autistic traits to high T/high autistic-traits. The correlation is high enough to be considered significant.

Simon Baron-Cohen, the second listed author and the head of the Autism Research Center at Cambridge University where the research was conducted, is probably the world's best-known autism researcher, and the author of some excellent books on the subject including the classic Mindblindness and The Essential Difference.

It’s much too early to pass judgment on this study (published only this month), but it certainly provides interesting food for thought….

Fetal testosterone and autistic traits

Authors: Auyeung, Bonnie1; Baron-Cohen, Simon1; Ashwin, Emma1; Knickmeyer, Rebecca1; Taylor, Kevin2; Hackett, Gerald3

Source: British Journal of Psychology, Volume 100, Number 1, February 2009 , pp. 1-22(22)

Publisher: British Psychological Society

Abstract:

Studies of amniotic testosterone in humans suggest that fetal testosterone (fT) is related to specific (but not all) sexually dimorphic aspects of cognition and behaviour. It has also been suggested that autism may be an extreme manifestation of some male-typical traits, both in terms of cognition and neuroanatomy. In this paper, we examine the possibility of a link between autistic traits and fT levels measured in amniotic fluid during routine amniocentesis. Two instruments measuring number of autistic traits (the Childhood Autism Spectrum Test (CAST) and the Child Autism Spectrum Quotient (AQ-Child)) were completed by these women about their children (N=235), ages 6-10 years. Intelligence Quotient (IQ) was measured in a subset of these children (N=74). fT levels were positively associated with higher scores on the CAST and AQ-Child. This relationship was seen within sex as well as when the sexes were combined, suggesting this is an effect of fT rather than of sex per se. No relationships were found between overall IQ and the predictor variables, or between IQ and CAST or AQ-Child. These findings are consistent with the hypothesis that prenatal androgen exposure is related to children exhibiting more autistic traits. These results need to be followed up in a much larger sample to test if clinical cases of ASC have elevated fT.

DOI: 10.1348/000712608X311731

Affiliations: 1: Autism Research Centre, Department of Psychiatry, University of Cambridge, Cambridge, UK 2: Department of Clinical Biochemistry, Addenbrooke's Hospital, Cambridge, UK 3: Department of Foetal Medicine, Rosie Maternity Hospital, Cambridge, UK

A woman pregnant during a stressful time, with reciprocal elevated fT levels, would give birth to a male child with perhaps more aggressive male traits. Anyone whose taken a gut blow from an autistic kid nows what I'm talkin' about! This could be all be linked to the survival of the human species.

just a theory(at this point anyway)

chilli-

[A-1 (imported)]

A woman pregnant during a stressful time, with reciprocal elevated fT levels, would give birth to a male child with perhaps more aggressive male traits. Anyone whose taken a gut blow from an autistic kid nows what I'm talkin' about! This could be all be linked to the survival of the human species.

just a theory(at this point anyway)

chilli-

In which case it is nurture and not nature (or external chemistry) that is causing this phenomenon. It is present at birth as a result of pre-natal environment.

It is the stressful life-styles in modern sociteties that is causing this to happen.

Perhaps it could be prevented...

[Castroboi (imported)]

As a proud autistic man I must say hearing that Wakefeild is going down like he is is like having a symphony of the greatest musicians play just for me.

Anyways A-1 your quite right their is proof that the recent spike in autism that we see is just an illusion. Hans Asperger discovered Asperger's Syndrome in 1944 but was only added to the American Psychiatric Association's diagnostic reference in the US in 1994. This is one of the big reasons for the illusion of the jump in autism rates, because before 1994 we didn't diagnosis people with asperger's syndrome. This is so very important because a study done by Bjorn Kadesjo, Christopher Gillberg, and Bibbi Hagberg in Sweden in 1999 found that 1/250 autistic people have asperger's syndrome, now right now we estimate that 1/150 people are autistic so this means that 60% of all people with autism have asperger's syndrome. What this means in basic terms that between 1994-2000 it appeared their was a huge spike in autism but really it was just people who were autistic finally being diagnosed. Also it is very important to remember that because Asperger's Syndrome was just added in 1994 and that many people have or will die without ever getting diagnosed and right now and in the future they will be replaced by those who will be diagnosed this will also contribute to the illusion more people than ever before are autistic.

Now what Paolo says is true many parents do grasp at any glimmer of hope even if it is false but it is my belief that the desperation many parents feel is due to a natural fear for their children however manipulation by organizations like Autism Speaks, DAN, and people Jenny McCarthy cause artificial fear to spread.

YourPhriendlyAuthor is right when he/she implied Austim Speaks is full of it because they are. Its not just the comparing autism to cancer or AIDs its all the stuff they do. Autism Speaks is guilty of bullying autistic people, they threatened an autistic girl when she made a parody of their homepage because she didn't like them, the threatened to sue her and all. Another time they threatened a lawsuit against a company that agreed to make shirts for an Autistic teenager name Zach which said "Autism Speaks Can Go Away I Have Autism I Speak For Myself".

One of their Founding member Suzan Wright said "We’re now playing catch-up as we try to stem the tide and ultimately eradicate autism for the sake of future generations. If we continue our current trajectory, we’ll get there in my lifetime.”

If she had instead used Gays, Jews, Muslims, Christians, Blacks instead of autism people would have been outraged but because its autism they don't.

[YourPhriendlyAuthor (imported)]

YourPhriendlyAuthor,

You raise some interesting points, but I do take some objection to your tone.

Let me ask you this - have you ever had to deal with a special-needs child?

I have - and let me tell you, that you WILL grasp at any straw that comes along that even offers the faintest glimmer of hope for *normality* for said child.

This whole thing with the "mercury tainted MMR vaccines" was indeed a tragedy, but in no way does it invalidate the struggles, or the steps that parents will take for the sake of their child.

Paolo,

For the record, I'm autistic myself.

I'm *not* down on parents who want the best for their kids, not by *any* stretch of the imagination! The problem that I'm concerned about is that when the parents *panic*, they'll subject their kids to whatever sadistic 'treatments' are dangled in front of them without *any* objective assessment beforehand!

The solution *isn't* to do whatever it takes to make the child 'normal' again; rather, it's to *understand* the child on *their* level. Like I said in my first post, autism is *not* just a shell that you can crack open and have a 'normal kid' pop out!

A friend of mine has an autistic daughter whose condition is fairly severe, enough to warrant being kept in a residential treatment center. When discussing autism with my friend - I wrote an op-ed in my local paper last April, and she'd read it - she said that she was *constantly* learning things from her daughter about how she experienced the world!

And *that's* the ideal that parents of autistic children should follow!

-YPA

[YourPhriendlyAuthor (imported)]

I read YPA's tone differently. To me he sounds like someone who has first-hand experience with a child with a major disorder – his own or someone close. Where there is no clear cause and no proven treatment, parents/caregivers grasp at any straw they can find. Charlatans can far too easily take advantage of them, to the detriment of the child.

And then, when the charlatan is exposed, there will still be "true believers" who "KNOW" the truth and will not be deterred by evidence....

Praise Jesus!

Like I just told Paolo, I'm autistic myself, so I *do* have experience with it.

Again, one of the problems in dealing with autism is that the child *appears* to be developing normally, and then regresses. It's that *regression* that makes autism so frustrating, because parents get the idea that they can *undo* the damage with proper treatment...

-YPA

[YourPhriendlyAuthor (imported)]

This man is the source of that misinformation. It was wrong. Not only that, he put "normal" kids in jeopardy with the stupidity of not getting MMR vaccine. That falls on his shoulders.

I will never fault the parents of a special needs child when it comes to all these odd treatments. I've worked with special needs kids and I know what those parents feel.

How does he live with himself knowing that he hurt children and their parents needlessly?

Not to mention that he probably delayed the research into the disease because too many researcher focused on the vaccines and not the condition.

Dave,

I agree 100% that Wakefield was at fault; hopefully, he'll lose his medical license and wind up getting sued for every penny he'll have in his next 37 lifetimes!

I don't want to fault parents of special needs kids; more than anything else, I want to be sure that they're proceeding from *understanding*, and NOT desperation!

-YPA

[YourPhriendlyAuthor (imported)]

As a proud autistic man I must say hearing that Wakefeild is going down like he is is like having a symphony of the greatest musicians play just for me.

Castroboi,

AMEN, Brother!!!

Anyways A-1 your quite right their is proof that the recent spike in autism that we see is just an illusion. Hans Asperger discovered Asperger's Syndrome in 1944 but was only added to the American Psychiatric Association's diagnostic reference in the US in 1994. This is one of the big reasons for the illusion of the jump in autism rates, because before 1994 we didn't diagnosis people with asperger's syndrome. This is so very important because a study done by Bjorn Kadesjo, Christopher Gillberg, and Bibbi Hagberg in Sweden in 1999 found that 1/250 autistic people have asperger's syndrome, now right now we estimate that 1/150 people are autistic so this means that 60% of all people with autism have asperger's syndrome. What this means in basic terms that between 1994-2000 it appeared their was a huge spike in autism but really it was just people who were autistic finally being diagnosed. Also it is very important to remember that because Asperger's Syndrome was just added in 1994 and that many people have or will die without ever getting diagnosed and right now and in the future they will be replaced by those who will be diagnosed this will also contribute to the illusion more people than ever before are autistic.

Your conclusion about the percentage isn't quite accurate; if 1 out of 250 autistics is an Aspie, for every 1000 autistics, there will be 4 Aspies. I think the percentage is quite a bit higher than that, but not 60%, though...

One of the problems with diagnosing Asperger's Syndrome is that it can be *very* subtle; an Aspie can appear nearly 'normal', so it goes undetected.

That was my problem. I had difficulties back when I was 4 or 5; an EEG showed that I had neurological abnormalities, but back in 1965, *nobody* knew anything about autism other than the severe, nonverbal, catatonic cases, so to some degree, I slipped through the cracks. I wasn't *officially* diagnosed until 1992, after a cousin who has an autistic son of her own made a comment to my mom about *me* being autistic.

One of the problems that I have with the 'spike' in autism is that it might be turning into a 'fad diagnosis', the way that ADD and ADHD were in the 1980's! They were *way* over-diagnosed ("Your kid's acting up? Must be ADHD; put him on Ritalin!"), and probably a fairly high percentage were MIS-diagnosed, too!

I DON'T want to see that happen with autism!

Now what Paolo says is true many parents do grasp at any glimmer of hope even if it is false but it is my belief that the desperation many parents feel is due to a natural fear for their children however manipulation by organizations like Autism Speaks, DAN, and people Jenny McCarthy cause artificial fear to spread.

YourPhriendlyAuthor is right when he/she implied Austim Speaks is full of it because they are. Its not just the comparing autism to cancer or AIDs its all the stuff they do. Autism Speaks is guilty of bullying autistic people, they threatened an autistic girl when she made a parody of their homepage because she didn't like them, the threatened to sue her and all. Another time they threatened a lawsuit against a company that agreed to make shirts for an Autistic teenager name Zach which said "Autism Speaks Can Go Away I Have Autism I Speak For Myself".

One of their Founding member Suzan Wright said "We’re now playing catch-up as we try to stem the tide and ultimately eradicate autism for the sake of future generations. If we continue our current trajectory, we

’ll get there in my lifetime.”

This is why groups like Aspies For Freedom, et. al., have actually gone before the United Nations and asked to be declared a protected minority!

I know *both* of the Aspies you mentioned from Aspies For Freedom, by the way; the teenage girl is actually an M2F transsexual, interestingly enough...

These are the 8 stages of genocide; if you follow autism activism at all, you'll probably notice more than a few that have come from Autism Speaks, Jenny McBimbo, et. al.:

Classification: People are distinguished into an “us and them” type situation based on ethnicity, race, religion, or nationality.

Symbolization: Names or symbols are given, and are distinguished by colors or dress.

Dehumanization: One group denies the humanity of another group, members of the dehumanized group are equated with animals, vermin, insects or disease.

Organization: Genocide is organized, usually by the states but also informally.

Polarization: Hate groups broadcast propaganda, and extremists drive the groups apart.

Identification: Victims are identified and separated out because of their ethnic or religious identity.

Extermination: Quickly becomes mass killings legally called “genocide”, it is “extermination” to the killers because they do not believe that their victims are fully human.

Denial: The perpetrators of the genocide attempt to deny that they have commited any crimes, and offen blame what happened on the victims.

If she had instead used Gays, Jews, Muslims, Christians, Blacks instead of autism people would have been outraged but because its autism they don't.

And the *reason* that people aren't outraged is *because* Autism Speaks has been so successful in disseminating their genocidal crap!

-YPA

[transward (imported)]

This thread has touched on a couple of points of interest to me. One is the link between prenatal exposure to testosterone and the development of autism. The most generally accepted theory on the causes of transsexuality is that it is caused by a shortage of testosterone in the womb during the period that the relevant male brain structures are being formed. Therefore you would expect to see fewer autistic trans women than in the general population of males. This seems to contradict my own observations.

A word about my background. For a number of years I scheduled and ran support groups for one of the oldest trans support organization in the country. I have facilitated hundreds of support groups, and met thousands of trans (mostly M2Fs) people. In that population there seem to be an awfully lot of autistic and Asperger's trans women, particularly in the local software and high tech industries. (OK I admit it is hard to distinguish general nerdliness caused by social isolation, and the biological reality of Asperger's, but these people seem to be utterly oblivious to the social cues around them.) This can make transitioning very difficult as our society expects women to have more social skills than men, and these TSs have less. I have discussed this with several local gender therapists, and they generally concur. I have, however, noticed that the autistic and Asperger's people are all late onset trans people, those who would be described by Transexuality’s Axis of Evil (Money, Bailey and Lawrence) as autogynophilic. (I have had suspicions that Anne Lawrence, of http://www.annelawrence.com/, herself could well be Asperger's. She is a truly brilliant woman, with the social skills of a rabid pit bull.) I have not met an autistic high fem early transitioner.

Transward

[chilliwilli (imported)]

I too am probably an asperger.

The whole association with autism, and sterotypical male antisocial traits, with elevated fT levels is interesting. The entire MMR/autism link is equally facinating. It is the children and their parents who are the true victims here. It is the scientist and often drug companies who profit from manipulating the research. "The Fugative", released a few years back deals with the issue of scientists manipulating research so that products can be advanced. Good film...worth watching.

chilli-

[Dave (imported)]

I too am probably an asperger.

The whole association with autism, and sterotypical male antisocial traits, with elevated fT levels is interesting. The entire MMR/autism link is equally facinating. It is the children and their parents who are the true victims here. It is the scientist and often drug companies who profit from manipulating the research. "The Fugative", released a few years back deals with the issue of scientists manipulating research so that products can be advanced. Good film...worth watching.

chilli-

oh for crap's sake, you just repeated his lie. Please don't do that again. There never was a link between MMR vaccines and autism. He made it up. A lie cannot be interesting. A lie is something to denounce.

This wasn't a case of a drug company manipulating data. This was a single doctor who faked a study and got some parents to withhold the vaccines out of fear.

"...

The entire MMR/autism link is equally fa

scinating..." It is a lie, a fake, a mistruth, a falsehood, a prevarication, an invention with no basis....

and it has caused the deaths of children. There is nothing "fascinating" about it. Nothing at all "fascinating." Is murder fascinating? Is a natural disaster "fascinating"? It should be criminal behavior to invent lies and shit like this. THIS WAS A LIE FROM THE INSTANT IT WAS PUBLISHED!

There was no link between MMR vaccines and autism. He faked the data. There still is no link. Other studies have shown no link. Research money was wasted trying to prove that his lie was true.

I feel much better having said all that. And I do realize you didn't quite mean what you said, the way you said it, and all that.