• TRT My opinions and options that may be available.

Posted: **Fri Nov 28, 2008 7:27 pm**

I did more reading on this drug

In answer to your question "the aromatase inhibition "may" be noncompetitive and irreversible. This phenomenon may account for the persistence of testolactones effect on estrogen synthesis after drug withdrawal."

Thus using this "may" eliminate estrogen levels forever if you use this drug. If your a woman dealing with advanced breast cancer (Without a cure) this is not very important. If your male and want to be healthy and have a sex life shutting off your E2 is not a good idea. And the drug makers btw say it IS contradicted in men (even with breast cancer) and I'm willing to bet its not tested for anything except women with cancer. Or to be more specific "Testolactone is intended for use only in postmenopausal women" with cancer.

According to the site I found that talks about this drug it does nothing to testosterone level or to be more specific "has no in vivo androgenic effect. No other hormonal effects have been reported in clinical studies in patients receiving testolactone." All it does is repress one form of estrogen maybe for good.

I'm curious what doctor would use this in the USA? Are we talking about "body builder" type Dr Roberts? or?

I would never use this myself.

- MrT

Testman (imported) wrote: Thu Nov 27, 2008 3:05 pm You then have to ask yourself, how much of a permanent suppression was there of estrogen? The men you heard from may have been on boatloads of it. And for the permanent suppression, I can't imagine it has to be very much.

It will also increase your natural testosterone level, assuming you have balls, and keep them from shrinking from HRT. It has been used in men in the USA for a testosterone booster and for an estrogen lowering effect in men who take injectable testosterone. As long as it does not shut down estrogen too hard, it should be OK. ofcourse, too little estrogen will cause an increase in cholesterol, but a blood test will show all that up. My doctor put me on it along with testosterone propionate at 200mg/wk, and it made my balls start producing again, as they increased in size very noticeably. I found that at a low dose, the estrogen lowering effects were not near too much for me. Bodybuilders before a show, will sometimes take high doses of it, as they don't want any estrogen at all. But at clinical doses, it is used by doctors in the US. Its not a "woman's drug" as it is actually more closely related to testosterone than estrogen. The downside is, it's expensive, which leads us back to where we started from. So another anti-estrogen is Proviron. It will make your dick stay hard and increase energy. It's actually a male hormone, if that makes people feel more at ease than using the other anti-estrogens.

Posted: **Sat Nov 29, 2008 12:08 am**

mrt (imported) wrote: Wed Nov 26, 2008 3:32 pm Just a couple of comments and these are just my personal 2 cents worth and I'm also not a doctor.

Most doctors would start at 200mg bi weekly with Depo Testosterone but most men feel less of a roller coaster effect if its done 7 to 10 days at 100mg to 150mg. Weight, etc all made finding the right dose difficult. Labs and how the patient reacts are very important to get it right. If the doctor tries to start you on 3 or (shudder) 4 week runs of Depo Testosterone decline! Its really a poor way to get your testosterone.

Clomid for long runs was not suggested. Its not tested for long term use and may (according to 2 doctors I worked with) cause damage to the centers that control hormone production causing more problems then it solves. For intact men who wish to procreate a safe run of 6 months with lots of sperm banking is the direction I would take it.

The starting dose for Androgel is 5gm not 2.5! The men who are started on 2.5 (I pity!) Its just not enough from everything I've read.

My Doctor said that Progesterone for men is not a great idea. If I remember why is ruins some of the effect of the Testosterone. In any event if you have enough of it don't add more.

Nebido is being used outside the US and the UK sites for hypogonadal men that I frequent are filled with men who hate it. Apparently its designed to last for many weeks to months. The only problem is that it doesn't work very well or at least not for as long as its designed to. I have hopes that it will not be approved in the USA until its proven to work correctly.

Anti-estrogen drugs are at best "questionable" with mainstream doctors. The primary issue is that none have been tested for long term use in men. The most popular one Arimidex is used by women with untreatable forms of cancer so its your safety that is a concern.

There are various herbs and such. Testing to see if they do "anything" is seriously warranted. *In my opinion.

Anyone starting on HRT should have labs done a couple of weeks after treatment starts or dose changes to judge how its working. An interview to see how the symptoms are going is vital! Anyone who "Starts" on HRT should be aware that after about 6 months on it your testicles will probably atrophy beyond repair. So don't start it without thinking of the consequences. Fertility will be impared at best. Ruined at worst. Once you sign up for lifetime HRT those Physicals become a MUST. This includes PSA tests to check for Prostate Cancer and a DRE (same reason) If your not going to get physicals DON'T start HRT! Your doctor will not write the scripts if he/she isn't sure its safe. And while HRT does not cause cancer it can make one that exists go wild like a brush fire.

It really just depends on the person though, I am not recommending or saying this is the treatment needed, however some Physicians look at this as a way to treat such as (Dr X Name removed) for example who is a Testosterone Dr who has written various books which you can purchase on amazon.

As for the 2.5 mg some family Physicians may start with this it just depends if the person hyper responds they may have the dose reduced to 2.5 also it may be increased to 7.5 then to 10 following testing if the labs are still too low. Quite a lot going on just depends on the person every one is not the same so various dosing may be required.

Yes the 200 mg every 2 weeks is more popular than the 100 mg a week of testosterone however better than 400-500 mg a month.

From what Physicians I have known they have not favord the nebido a whole lot, also in the USA it looks like they are using smaller dosing in the studies for example normally Depo Testosterone in canada is 250 cc mg in the USA it is 200 mg a cc just for an example.

You are correct on clomid however some Physicians use it or a more modern form of an anti estrogen just depending on the Physician. It is still a field of medicine that is not easy and needs a lot of research.

I understand where you are coming from however studying medicine and Psychology this is what I have concluded from Physicians who have been well known and respected for what they do. Some guys get at the upper 1/3 of the range on smaller doses some do not it just depends on many factors and no one knows without blood tests.

Some do fine on testosterone alone some do need other medications added in.

Good information!!

No Pun intended my friend we all have our opinions and out looks and I think this may be helpful.

It is just a fact that some of us know it can be indeed quite difficult to find a good Physician and stressful for some.

Lets keep it positive.

Just a personal opinion no medical advise intended or recommended.

Posted: **Sat Nov 29, 2008 12:13 am**

mrt (imported) wrote: Fri Nov 28, 2008 7:27 pm I did more reading on this drug

In answer to your question "the aromatase inhibition "may" be noncompetitive and irreversible. This phenomenon may account for the persistence of testolactone’s effect on estrogen synthesis after drug withdrawal."

Thus using this "may" eliminate estrogen levels forever if you use this drug. If your a woman dealing with advanced breast cancer (Without a cure) this is not very important. If your male and want to be healthy and have a sex life shutting off your E2 is not a good idea. And the drug makers btw say it IS contradicted in men (even with breast cancer) and I'm willing to bet its not tested for anything except women with cancer. Or to be more specific "Testolactone is intended for use only in postmenopausal women" with cancer.

According to the site I found that talks about this drug it does nothing to testosterone level or to be more specific "has no in vivo androgenic effect. No other hormonal effects have been reported in clinical studies in patients receiving testolactone." All it does is repress one form of estrogen maybe for good.

I'm curious what doctor would use this in the USA? Are we talking about "body builder" type Dr Roberts? or?

I would never use this myself.

- MrT

If your levels are too high it may be used, a Physician such as DR X Name Removed for example would use an anti estrogen in some cases however not all cases are anti estrogens used.

It is just used if the Testosterone conversion converts too much into Estrogen from Testosterone.

Not all Physicians however check Estrogens either, if you have your niples itching then this may be a reason to check. An example ARIMIDEX can be used if estrogens are too high mabye 2-3 times a week, just depends on the person.

Many do just fine on Testosterone replacement alone.

Just opionions no medical advise recommended or pun intended.

Posted: **Sun Nov 30, 2008 8:50 pm**

Some men have higher conversion to estrogen than others do. I know a guy who could take a gram a week of Cypionate, and his estrogen stayed normal. Most men would get enough estrogen from 200mg/wk of Cypionate to actually start retaining water! I like Cypionate, but thats one effect that can be bad for some guys, and especially older men. There is some evidence that is showing that estrogen may be more cancer promoting in the prostate gland than testosterone is.

And yes, it was a regular doctor who gave me the Teslac, what other doctor can do it in the USA? Certainly not the "Dr. Roberts" type. I wish we had that kind of liberty in the US. There was a recent poll done in the states, and like half of the people polled said they no longer believed the US to be a place of "liberty and justice for all". I wonder why... But, now I'm getting political.

BTW, I prefer not to use the Teslac, as I know that higher estrogen can be a good thing, bodybuilder wise, as it allows higher IGF-1 levels and suppressing estrogen also suppresses muscles gains. I was just playing devil's advocate. But less estrogen, tends to benefit some men.

Posted: **Sun Nov 30, 2008 8:57 pm**

mrt (imported) wrote: Fri Nov 28, 2008 7:27 pm According to the site I found that talks about this drug it does nothing to testosterone level or to be more specific "has no in vivo androgenic effect. No other hormonal effects have been reported in clinical studies in patients receiving testolactone." All it does is repress one form of estrogen maybe for good.

It is well known that Teslac, like another more common anti-estrogen, Clomid, increases testosterone production, though not dramatically. But because it increases testosterone production, the US government calls it a steroid. (even though, it's not) Technically, that site didn't lie. If you have no balls, Teslac will not have any androgenic effect, in itself. Thats like HCG, which the government also places on the same "band list" as steroids because it raises testosterone production. But by itself, it is not testosterone. It only raises it by making what you have between your legs kick in, and kick in quite well, I must say. Some men see testosterone levels increase many fold. But unlike Teslac, you can't stay on HCG, as it may cause your balls some trouble. (:

In a way, I miss the Teslac, as my girlfriend liked the big balls. Well, and I told this story before, I got on it and my balls got to what I perceived as big. Then I went and showed her. She liked it, had some sex, liked me more, (: Then commented, "Well, they're not really big, but I will say they are not small anymore." Personally, I don't care if they're small, but apparently some women do? Now I'm freaked out to be with any other women. I'm not seeing my girlfriend anymore. (not related to this) Teslac was actually more expensive (By far) than the testosterone shots. I can't hide small balls, as they disappear in me with an erection. lol argh! I know a guy who was on Deca, a mild steroid, for contraceptive purposes. Yes, thats actually legal, ofcourse not in the USA. And his balls were very small from it. He met a woman at a club, who actually later became his wife, so I guess its all cool in then end. But the first night she slept with him, they were making out and she said, "Where are your balls!" And I'm seeing this Ukrainian woman now, and those women generally like men to be more manly than average. I know that I have most of that attribute, but apparently, not all of it. There's already a stereotype of American men over there that is along these lines. LOL Better to not add to it.

Posted: **Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:26 am**

Testman (imported) wrote: Sun Nov 30, 2008 8:57 pm It is well known that Teslac, like another more common anti-estrogen, Clomid, increases testosterone production, though not dramatically. But because it increases testosterone production, the US government calls it a steroid. (even though, it's not) Technically, that site didn't lie. If you have no balls, Teslac will not have any androgenic effect, in itself. Thats like HCG, which the government also places on the same "band list" as steroids because it raises testosterone production. But by itself, it is not testosterone. It only raises it by making what you have between your legs kick in, and kick in quite well, I must say. Some men see testosterone levels increase many fold. But unlike Teslac, you can't stay on HCG, as it may cause your balls some trouble. (:

In a way, I miss the Teslac, as my girlfriend liked the big balls. Well, and I told this story before, I got on it and my balls got to what I perceived as big. Then I went and showed her. She liked it, had some sex, liked me more, (: Then commented, "Well, they're not really big, but I will say they are not small anymore." Personally, I don't care if they're small, but apparently some women do? Now I'm freaked out to be with any other women. I'm not seeing my girlfriend anymore. (not related to this) Teslac was actually more expensive (By far) than the testosterone shots. I can't hide small balls, as they disappear in me with an erection. lol argh! I know a guy who was on Deca, a mild steroid, for contraceptive purposes. Yes, thats actually legal, ofcourse not in the USA. And his balls were very small from it. He met a woman at a club, who actually later became his wife, so I guess its all cool in then end. But the first night she slept with him, they were making out and she said, "Where are your balls!" And I'm seeing this Ukrainian woman now, and those women generally like men to be more manly than average. I know that I have most of that attribute, but apparently, not all of it. There's already a stereotype of American men over there that is along these lines. LOL Better to not add to it.

I guess by the Dr Roberts type I meant one that is "fringe" ie doing things that are outside of the mainstream. I would list for example Dr Kimmel that way as how he works is clearly different from the norm. I think you need to work with a doctor that works for you. You and I might have very different ideas on what is safe etc but this is what you have to do for yourself and we can simply agree to disagree.

Anyway outside of that...

I DO understand what your saying about your testicle size. Mine were atrophied to pre-pube levels and whew... this really sucked. I've had that "where did they go" comment because they got so tiny they were always stuck up inside me. Not good for the male ego... The main reason I had them removed was chronic pains but as I told my GP the whole size issue was a serious part of my consideration over how to deal with it. Getting adult sized implants made having the surgery a little easier and I suppose I was one of the few people to get a bilateral orchiectomy that was smiling on the way to the OR. I feel pretty good about the results. No, I feel REALLY good about my choice. Pain = zero. Thats huge... And so am I!

Thats pretty great as well.

Posted: **Tue Jan 20, 2009 5:02 pm**

A far cheaper solution to topical applications of testosterone is AndroMen Forte 5% t-cream.

A 50gm tube costs $100 and this is equivalent to 2.5gms of pure bio-identical testosterone.

AndroGel is 1% (so 5 times less concentrated) and will cost you close to $500 to obtain that 2.5gms of testosterone.

The other problem with gels is that they are alcohol based (as you would know from the stench if you have used them) and because of that have to be applied to tough (read low adsorption) skin. Androgel has an adsorption rate of 10% on the back and shoulders where it is recommended it be applied. The alcohol base is also the reason so many users of the gels get skin rashes and irritation.

AndroMen Forte is designed to be applied to the scrotum and has a 70% adsorption rate (7 times more testosterone gets into the blood stream).

So to sum it all up, AndroGel is 5 times the cost and 7 times less adsorption. So my simple math tells me that AndroMen Forte 5% testosterone cream is 35 times more cost effective.

I don't know about you but I value my money. I have been using AndroMen 5% t-cream for a few years now and have never had a problem.

It is imported from Australia so no taxes and no prescription if you know what you need and a doctors visit is just more expense you can do without.

You can check out the products on their site http://www.hormonesolutions.com.au

Posted: **Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:57 pm**

Its prescription only (In Australia) I'm not sure they would ship it to the USA without a prescription but assuming they did its a Class III "drug" and a felony if you get caught.

Posted: **Tue Jan 20, 2009 11:02 pm**

Testman (imported) wrote: Sun Nov 30, 2008 8:57 pm In a way, I miss the Teslac, as my girlfriend liked the big balls. Well, and I told this story before, I got on it and my balls got to what I perceived as big. Then I went and showed her. She liked it, had some sex, liked me more, (: Then commented, "Well, they're not really big, but I will say they are not small anymore." Personally, I don't care if they're small, but apparently some women do? Now I'm freaked out to be with any other women..

This is an interesting comment. You may find this strange, but as a gay man, with straight female friends who don't mind (actually like) talking about male sex issues, I have learned that many women (most???) don't like big balls.

Yes, bigger cocks are of interest, but even more than a big cock most women seem to want men who focus on satisfying the women, not on satisfying themselves.

And for some reason, unknown to me, big balls are generally a turn off.

Women just tend to find them gross. Not all women of course, but at least the ones I know (and the women they know).

Men, on the other hand, like everything big. The bigger the better. It's a male competition, especially in the locker room. While most women I know are not into "tiny", average is just fine. Satisfaction is all that counts.

When we (my lady friends and I) discussed men who have no balls, well, that was a bit more of a turn off than big balls. But again, they conceded that if a man had no balls, but could get it up, and if the man focused his attention on satisfying the woman, instead of just himself, they could probably overlook their squeemish feelings about him having no balls.

So, like with men, as with women, it's all about ME. ME ME ME.

Any relationship where each person was actively trying to please the other person, instead of themselves, must be one powerhouse of a relationship.

This is not a scientific sample, and certainly would not apply to everyone in every situation.

Now that my balls have shrunk, and the left one is dead, numb, and the right one is almost totally numb I kind of like them. I mean I liked my balls when they were larger, full, and fully functional, but I like them better now. Like who gives a damn whether I like my balls this way or that way. Nobody does. It's just something to do, writing about my likes and dislikes.

Posted: **Wed Jan 21, 2009 8:52 pm**

mrt (imported) wrote: Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:57 pm Its prescription only (In Australia) I'm not sure they would ship it to the USA without a prescription but assuming they did its a Class III "drug" and a felony if you get caught.

It is not a felony if you get caught importing personal amounts!

What happens is that customs take the package, send you and the supplier a letter letting you know that they will destroy the contents unless you lodge a request to review. Just let them destroy it and nothing else will happen. It is a felony if you import 'saleable' quantities. Mind you what a saleable amount is I have no idea - 5 tubes?, 50 tubes I'm sure would be but who the heck would order that much anyway?

This particular supplier will refund your money or simply send you another tube if that happens - they ask you what you want to do.

I've never had a problem getting it delivered and neither have any of my friends who use it.

TRT My opinions and options that may be available.

Re: TRT My opinions and options that may be available.

Re: TRT My opinions and options that may be available.

Re: TRT My opinions and options that may be available.

Re: TRT My opinions and options that may be available.

Re: TRT My opinions and options that may be available.

Re: TRT My opinions and options that may be available.

Re: TRT My opinions and options that may be available.

Re: TRT My opinions and options that may be available.

Re: TRT My opinions and options that may be available.

Re: TRT My opinions and options that may be available.