DeaconBlues (imported) wrote: Mon Nov 10, 2008 12:00 am My thoughts on this subject are this, that E85 is a "red herring," something to DISTRACT consumers from any REAL alternatives to crude oil/fossil fuels. Exxon/Mobil makes a few PATHETIC and lame efforts to reduce emissions and price of fuel, and they ALWAYS hype up their efforts that are in fact nothing more than window dressing.

E85 was hyped up in the news, "burns cleaner," "reduce dependence on foreign oil," and a bunch of other lies. Yet the reality of E85 and other things they do, is that it in every way just makes it all worse.

Corn used for fuel is corn NOT used for food and feed, and arable farm land used for fuel corn vice food and feed. This E85, has actually increased the price of many foods, there are many who say that E85 actually is a WORSE fuel from an emissions standpoint.

Something that truly amazes me, is that here in the U.S., the country with the great technological advances, the only country to have an active space shuttle program, and numerous other wonders, yet our "alternative fuels" suck. The country of Brazil has a real and prctical alternative fuel, their cars are all produced to be compatible with the other fuel which is CHEAPER than gasoline.

When I see things like this:

http://cc.pubco.net/www.valcent.net/i/m ... index.html

For a short time, I feel inspired, interested, intrigued and ENTHUSIASTIC.... then... I ask myself, "Just how fucking long will we have to wait to see this put to use? Why has it not already been put to use?" The answers to those questions are NOT inspiring and they quickly take the wind out of my sails as far as the enthusiasm goes. The answers to those questions.... We will NEVER see any real and practical alternative fuels developed, we will NEVER see any real and practical "sustainable" or "renewable" energy developed. There are way too many very rich people who are very well served by the situation exactly as it is, it will never change.

DeaconBlues back in the late 20's or early 30's a fela from Maine came up with a fomula for alternative fule for gasoline it was in the form of a pill.You put the pill in your gas tank and fill it wiht water rocked the car vigorously and drove away.Our fela tryed to patten his invention and was refused,big oil,auto and goverment stop him.He was from Maine and died a cupple of years a go the fomula died with him. :(___Ernie of Maine___:)

I've been curious and now seems like as good as any to ask this question...

On flexfuel vehicles... are there separate tanks or do you have to use the gas to begin using e85... or... mix the two?

Just curious. Maybe a flexfuel vehicle owner can answer this for me.

incuse (imported) wrote: Mon Nov 10, 2008 10:19 pm I've been curious and now seems like as good as any to ask this question...

On flexfuel vehicles... are there separate tanks or do you have to use the gas to begin using e85... or... mix the two?

Just curious. Maybe a flexfuel vehicle owner can answer this for me.

You can use either E85 or regular fuel, or mix them in any proportion you wish, but use it only on a vehicle set up for E85.. Generally, the old notion of a fool and his money, etc is applicable to the use of E85. My new truck loses 30% or more on E85 for mileage. Costs me more to use it than regular gas.

I've believed this for a long time, and absolutely nothing has changed my mind on this. Ethanol-based fuels, as they're currently produced, are nothing more than propaganda at their best.

While there is research underway to convert the cellulose found in things like switchgrass, corn stalks, and most 'waste' organic materials into ethanol, current methods just don't work. Any time you turn edible food into fuel you are making a huge mistake.

The only reason this whole mess has gotten this far is because the eco-movement has become so blinded in their zeal that reality is no longer a part of their reasoning. Anything smacking of being 'green' is instantly pounced upon, and any detractors are considered 'anti-environmental'.

I'm all for alternative fuels. I do believe that a hybrid vehicle can be far more efficient than current gasoline-only vehicles. Take a standard engine, tweak it to produce electricity rather than motive power. Set it to run at a constant speed, one that will produce 110-120% of the energy required for average city speeds. The excess can charge batteries for those times when a little extra oomph is required, as well as powering extras like AC. By running the engine at a constant speed you can fine-tune it for maximum efficiency, and still power the wheels through electrical motors alone.

There is no reason this model cannot work, and replace a majority of average use vehicles on the road today. Most of the cars on the road are used for simple, light tasks that such a vehicle would be ideally suited for. Even better, with the right electric motors, and with a tweaked engine, there's no reason that such a vehicle cannot have as much power as most commuter cars out there.

Agreed, it won't replace every car. There will always be exceptions that require bigger engines, more torque, and so on. But they are just that, exceptions. They are not the rule, and should not be treated as if they were.

If you're still not convinced, lets take a look at what the 'ethanol fuel' movement has done to at least one product out there. Beer. Currently there is a hops shortage, and it's been around for awhile now, and will likely contine for some time. Why? Well for a number of years there has been overproduction, leading to unusually low prices for hops. Since ethanol (E85) fuels have taken off so strongly, a number of farms have switched over to growing corn for these fuels, rather than growing hops. Because of this, the prices of hops have gone through the roof. This will eventually lead to higher beer prices, and nobody wants that. So support your local microbrewery and stop using E85. Please.

incuse (imported) wrote: Mon Nov 10, 2008 10:19 pm I've been curious and now seems like as good as any to ask this question...

On flexfuel vehicles... are there separate tanks or do you have to use the gas to begin using e85... or... mix the two?

Just curious. Maybe a flexfuel vehicle owner can answer this for me.

Separate tanks and an adjustable carburetor. I've seen the guts of natural gas/gasoline vehicles and there is a pressure tank for the methane and a gasoline tank like in any other car. That, and a really nifty carburetor system under the hood.

If E85 has a similar vaporization point to gasoline, then its stored like gasoline and vaporized in a special carburetor.

No new car sold in the U.S. uses a carburetor. They all use fuel injection. --FLO--

My Explorer is a typical gas engine setup. There is one gas tank, one set of fuel lines, standard fuel injection system. You can mix and match all types of gas/ethanol in it.

The difference is the internal linings of the lines, injectors, etc., so as not to be degraded by the alcohol. There is also a fuel sensor and the computer monitors the spark performance, making adjustments as needed. Other than that, there is nothing special about the E-85 setup - other than a pretty sticker inside the gas tank lid.

Kangan (imported) wrote: Mon Nov 10, 2008 8:35 am Just saw gasoline for $1.89 in Henderson, Kentucky.

The problem with the recent drop in oil and gasoline prices is our own short term memory. When the prices are high we clamour for fuel alternative and new more efficient cars and trucks, but as soon as the price drops we return to our old ways forgetting the pain of high energy cost. Just look at our history since the 1973 oil embargo.



We need to keep the pressure on for the development of new alternative fuel and cleaner more efficient cars and trucks. End of rant thanks for listening.

...

DeaconBlues (imported) wrote: Mon Nov 10, 2008 12:00 am Something that truly amazes me, is that here in the U.S., the country with the great technological advances, the only country to have an active space shuttle program, and numerous other wonders, yet our "alternative fuels" suck. The country of Brazil has a real and prctical alternative fuel, their cars are all produced to be compatible with the other fuel which is CHEAPER than gasoline...

Brazil is a very unique situation. Without using all the land they have put under cultivation for sugar cane, they produce more sugar than the world market can use. They are in the position of being able to produce vast quantities of ethanol without impacting their food or fodder production. Their adoption of ethanol fuel stabilized the world market for sugar, and is self sustaining since the spent mash, after the alcohol is removed, is used for cattle feed and the left over crushed cane is burned in electrical generating plants, for industrial heat, and is processed into fertilizer.

It took them a long time to do this. There were severe engineering problems to overcome in adapting automobile engines to burn ethanol. This was solved, with a great deal of effort, and now flex-fuel engines, that can burn ethanol, ethanol-gasoline blend, or gasoline, are standard on cars and light trucks in Brazil.

No country but Brazil is in a position to do this. The United States is certainly not, since the use of corn to produce ethanol impacts the price of everything from sodas to meat to breakfast cereal. With best current practice, US produced ethanol costs 30% more than ethanol imported from Brazil. Interestingly enough, while the commercial sweetener of choice, for the last 50 years, has been corn syrup since it was cheaper than cane sugar, the use of corn to produce fuel in the US has raised the price to the point where sugar is competitive again.

Oh, yes. F.Y.I. since Brazil made all the effort to change to ethanol for passenger car fuel, controlled their oil imports, and became the worlds largest supplier of ethanol, they have discovered oil in Brazil, and after producing heavy fuels and lubricants for domestic truck, train, marine, and aviation use, they are now a net oil exporter too.

Not sure when going green became confused with going cheep. As i see it the only reasons for buying energy efficient products are to either reduce your carbon footprint or to reduce dependence on foreign oil.

If you buy an hybrid car, true you save money on gas. But you don't save money overall after you change the battery or get a $1,000 diagnostic check up for a service engine light. Same thing with the E 85, you don't really save money but if you care enough about the environment the extra couple dollars you sacrifice are worth it.