lilolme4 (imported) wrote: Sat Sep 20, 2008 11:58 am The government bailout is in effect the federal government stepping in and telling the bank it will guarantee the mortgage and pay for it when the 'person' defaults.

Already done. The vast bulk of these mortgage loans are FHA insured. At one time FannieMae was a government corporation that was later privatized I expect the next wave of loan problems will be the Farm Loan Bank which has a similar history. --FLO--

lilolme4 (imported) wrote: Sat Sep 20, 2008 8:35 am Actually, the feds snipped the line on the golden parachute of the fannie/freddie CEOs.

You guys see "bailout" and you automatically think some fat rich guy is getting hooked up by the government. So far what we've seen is that the shareholders are the last to benefit from the buyouts, and this the CEOs who lost millions in stock value aren't being 'bailed out' either.

The real winners ARE the lower and middle class people who now have the government owning their mortgages and insurance and who will now not be evicted or go uncovered.

...shouda tied the parachute harness around their necks and pulled the ripcord as they went out of the plane...that way they could hang like the rest of us...

I am totally appaled by the idea of US taxpayer being asked to bail out these for-profit ventures. THere are a couple of things that I havn't heard mentioned though. THe huge past profits and payrolls of the corporations and CEO's were taxed pretty heavily (39%?) so the government made a pretty nice profit off of all of already. The poor and downtrodden of this country arn't paying a dime for these bailouts because the bottom 50% in this country pay next to no federal taxes anyways or get an "earned Income" rebate (money for nothing) instead.

It's a horrible mess and I'm afraid not doing this massive bailout/ overhaul is the least painful option in the long run. I jsut think we the taxpayers out to have some ownership or forclosed properties out of the deal. Also, let the govt take over these mortgages and reset them at reasonable rates and do what can be done to keep the people in their homes (if the people are making an effort). Also, make it a felony for trashing a home as you move out because you are getting forclosed on. It's amazing how often that happens. I've seen it first hand, many times. It just compunds the problem.

ramses (imported) wrote: Sun Sep 21, 2008 6:15 am I am totally appaled by the idea of US taxpayer being asked to bail out these for-profit ventures. THere are a couple of things that I havn't heard mentioned though. The huge past profits and payrolls of the corporations and CEO's were taxed pretty heavily (39%?) so the government made a pretty nice profit off of all of already. The poor and downtrodden of this country arn't paying a dime for these bailouts because the bottom 50% in this country pay next to no federal taxes anyways or get an "earned Income" rebate (money for nothing) instead.

It's a horrible mess and I'm afraid not doing this massive bailout/ overhaul is the least painful option in the long run. I jsut think we the taxpayers out to have some ownership or forclosed properties out of the deal. Also, let the govt take over these mortgages and reset them at reasonable rates and do what can be done to keep the people in their homes (if the people are making an effort). Also, make it a felony for trashing a home as you move out because you are getting forclosed on. It's amazing how often that happens. I've seen it first hand, many times. It just compunds the problem.

You make some strong points. I thought the top tax is 35 percent on the federal level and 6 percent here in Louisiana. However, I forgot to include Socialist Security deductions. For some reason, I seem to pay a lot, at least, I did during the past three years. I am completely opposed to any higher percentages in payroll taxes. I do think that a flat rate tax makes sense if we are to keep a national income tax.

Even though they work against people like me who essentially live on deferred income, value added taxes make sense to me. Adjustments can be made to repay people who have paid enormous income tax burdens during their major career yeas, but that is a fine point.

With longevity increasing and health improving, there is hope for people like me to keep working until we are a 105!

My former wife felt that everyone ought to make some effort to contribute to the weal of all. I think that some kind of public service ought to be part o receiving benefits, at least in most situations.

Trashing a property is theft. It ought to result in jail time, not probation.

I worked for a quarter century in law enforcement. I have no tolerance for damaging property.

Reinitiating mortgages makes sense to me. I think the same ought to apply for credit card debit which banks have sold without concern for the effects of that kind of credit.

We need to realise that we are nationalizing the finanacial sector. We ought to gain a lot of control if we assume bad debt. And the profits ought to go first to repaying the bailout.

What amazes me is that almost no one saw this coming. Really smart people missed it. I think that maybe Kevin Phillips predicted it, but really good observes missed it.

I like the take on SNL last night. "It turns our that free enterprise is not free." That is what I think that I heard. Of course, there is no such thing as free enterprise. There are instead what people ought to mean when they use that phrase, that is private enterprise and free competition. I happend to think that private enterprise deserves government protection and that free competition tends to require some regulation of economic enterprise but not suffocation.

I think that we have resources to correct this failure, but it seems that inflation has destroyed maybe 30-40 percent of the value of the dollar since 2000. We are dealing with commodity inflation, massive debt, a seriously depreciated dollar, a serious focus on financial instruments as substitutes for investment, and several other factors. As Kevin Phillips notes, one can bet on failure and still make money. That is just the way it is.

People like me who are older and not in the prime of health but still somewhat able bodied need to find ways to keep working into our old age. I know people who worked into their nineties and some who worked even longer. I have always hoped to work until I am 105, an age that I once thought I might attain. These days the next morning is fine!

We are not going to undertand what is happening at first; at least, I don't think that most of us will.

Good thoughts above. The system, it's problems, and solutions are so complex.

In any market, free or otherwise, the consumer still rules.

Gas prices go up, and the consumers shy away from SUV's and other gas hogs.

The auto makers will respond, it just takes time for them to re-tool.

If consumers would not buy products from greedy gouging companies, those companies would adapt........but not enough consumers know what the heck is going on in companies and won't shop their conscience.

If you own mutual funds (individually or though a 401k, you are undoubtedly supporting companies that are greedy and gouging. This may be part of the problem. Each week hundreds of millions of dollars pour into the system from 401k contributions. Most contributors have no idea where their money is going. But they keep feeding it into unknown companies. The rulers of these companies see this and know that their "stockholders" are out of the loop. As a stock holder via your 401k money, you never get to cast a vote for the board of directors or any other matter before those companies you have money in. So they self-direct themselves. They get greedy. They get rich. And the working class continues to feed money into the system, week after week.

THIS is why you do not want a privatized Security Security System.

You think your retirement is destroyed or threatened now?

Just privatize Social Security and you just get more of what we have been experiencing.

It is only the Republicans who want to privatize Social Security.

Their greed is endless.

Let's hope the people do not reward incompetence and greed by giving the Republican Party four more years. If the Republicans are re-elected, I for one, am converting my retirement savings to physical gold and silver. It is not beyond a reasonable doubt for us to have 20%, 50% 100% inflation in the coming years as the American dollar becomes more and more worthless because of 11.3 Trillion dollars of debt.

Do you realize that each legal person in America owes about $32,285.00 on the national debt? $11,300,000,000,000 of national debt divided by / 350,000,000 legal americans)

While that may be less than some people's Visa Card, just how in the heck can this ever be repaid? It can't.....unless inflation kicks in and makes that debt devalued.

Well, one other way is for everyone to make babies and encourage legal immigration. The more people that there are in America, the less per person the debt will be.

Kevin Phillips said on Bill Moyers Journal Friday evening, ""ell, what makes it fascinating is that I sometimes use the description "seven sharks." There are seven sharks in the tank with the economy.

"And the first is financialization because we're so dependent on this industry that's sort of half lost its marbles. The second is that you have this huge buildup of debt, absolutely unprecedented anywhere in the world. The third is you've now got home prices collapsing. The fourth is you've got global commodity inflation building up.

"The fifth is you've got flawed and deceptive government economics statistics. The sixth is that you've got what they call peak oil where the world is, to some extent, running out of oil. So it's not just commodity inflation, it's a shortage of oil. And then the last thing is the collapsing dollar. Now, whenever you get this sort of package in one decade, you got a big one. And when Greenspan says it's a once a century, I think it's another variation but on a par with the Thirties."

"

Blaise (imported) wrote: Mon Sep 22, 2008 4:09 am Now, whenever you get this sort of package in one decade, you got a big one. And when Greenspan says it's a once a century, I think it's another variation but on a par with the Thirties."

If Greenspan is so smart how come he made such a statement? You mean this country and the world needs to go through this every 80 years or so?

River

A condition for any institution putting bad debt on the taxpayers ought to be than no one in any of these instituions can be paid more than ten times the minimum wage at no more than the equivalent of forty hours a week for 52 weeks until all the bad debt is recovered. Capital gains on any income above a million dollars ought to be taxed at a high rate, at least as high as the highest personal payroll tax is. Al income above a million dollars a year ought to be taxed with a high surcharge until all the debt is retired.

Then we can listen to creeps like Phil Gramm whin about whinning.

"

Blaise (imported) wrote: Mon Sep 22, 2008 4:09 am Now, whenever you get this sort of package in one decade, you got a big one. And when Greenspan says it's a once a century, I think it's anoth

Riverwind (imported) wrote: Mon Sep 22, 2008 5:42 am er variation but on a par with the Thirties."

If Greenspan is so smart how come he made such a statement? You mean this country and the world

needs to go through this every 80 years or so?

River

Greenspan was and is a jerk.He is the fool who pretended to be a wise man. He wasn't and he isn't. He was bright, but he was and is not a wise man. He is an utterly disgraced man with no sense of shame. I wish we were like the Japanese and expected these creeps to remove themselves from the gene pool. At the least, he ought to sell all he has and give it to the poor while he retreats to a monastery. But he won’t. He is a disciple of the wretched Ayan Rand.