I had to stop my last run on Androcur having experienced an one of the documented side effects; shortness of breath. It got so bad that even drinking a glass of water invoked panic. I had experienced it a little bit before, but not to this extent.

I was on 50mg of Androcur a day with a full strength estrogen patch and this was my third trial in a year, with gaps between each of about 6 weeks. I really liked the effects, but am not sure what to do next. I don't want to experience that side effect again.

Perhaps my next step is physical castration to get the effect, without the risk. Just a pity that it is not an elective procedure in the UK.

lindsey69 (imported) wrote: Tue May 24, 2011 1:41 am I had to stop my last run on Androcur having experienced an one of the documented side effects; shortness of breath. It got so bad that even drinking a glass of water invoked panic. I had experienced it a little bit before, but not to this extent.

I think shortness of breath and general lack of energy is not a direct effect of Androcur per se, but an effect of low testosterone. In other words, castration of any kind could give you the same effect. Please research more to make sure first.

Hi hkeunuch,

Yes, those symptoms are a sign of low testosterone, but this was a very different experience. Shortness of breath is listed as a side effect of Cyproterone in this thread. It was enough to scare me into stop taking the medication which I had been doing on and off for a year. I stopped back in March and am still feeling the effects. Semen volume is very low and clear plus erections are hard to get and maintain. By the time I finally get to ejaculate, the erection has long gone - an odd sensation! I don't know how long it will take to totally recover.

I am also pleased with an Estrogen side effect as well, a nice pair of breasts. I hope that they do not go away!

hkeunuch (imported) wrote: Tue May 24, 2011 7:01 pm I think shortness of breath and general lack of energy is not a direct effect of Androcur per se, but an effect of low testosterone. In other words, castration of any kind could give you the same effect. Please research more to make sure first.

Hi Lindsey, This is really strange. I never posted this reply?!?! To me, I don't agree with the post any way.

It's a too much a fine detail to deserve our worrying about. Androcur causes low testosterone, which in turn causes shortness of breath. Let's focus on the key concern, that when you were taking Androcur, you got serious shortness of breath, and significant loss of male sexual functioning.

When I was taking Androcur, I got the same problem, definitely not quite to the point where I get a panic attack just drinking water. Between the lack of strength and breath, it was really hard to stay fit and keep off all the weight.

Now that it's been a year or so after I stopped Androcur, I don't run out of breath. Strength has returned some but not back to before.

Lindsey, From your latest post, it seems like you would like a return of male sexual functions. Their return depends on how long and how high a dose you had been on Androcur. Everybody may be different. The general experience reported by alumni of Androcur is that 6 months would often be the time when irresponsibility start to set in.

For myself, after 4 yrs of low doses of Androcur, and a year after stopping, I never recover much of my sexual functions or libido (which is just what I have been looking for).

But if you do wish to return to the previous self in male sexual functioning, you also need to stop estrogen. That does faster and more serious damage to your testicles.

But estrogen will help restore some of your loss of breath and energy.

Ultimately, you need to have some quick soul searching as to what do you want to achieve yourself, why you want to take these hormones. And you need to bear in mind that there are many trade-offs that you will have to make sure you can live with for the rest of your life. I cannot think of any scenario where one can be substantially less masculine or more feminine, but still have full male sexual functions.

Hi hkeunuch,

I stopped estrogen and Androcur at the same.

If I didn't have concerns over the side effects, I would not have stopped.

My desire is not to have any male sexual function at all and hope that my one year has done enough damage so that the changes are irreversible. I was wondering how long I would have to wait after stopping to see if this is indeed the case.

Regarding Tamoxifen, the listed side effects are hard to judge because they are studied for women who take it and it is an estrogen blocker. Many of the side effects are due to the woman losing all their sex hormones, so things like loss of libido and vaginal dryness. For men however, you'll still have testosterone (unless you're also blocking that), so you won't get hot flashes and your libido and testosterone levels will actually increase (about 15%).

I'm an otherwise healthy guy who's taken SERMs like Tamoxifen for about 10 straight years daily. I started it for bodybuilding reasons (it really helps you get hard and lean) but kept on it because I found it greatly helped reduce my castration desires (not sure if anyone ever has studied whether estrogen imbalance in men leads to castration desire). I highly recommend it for any guy who has a somewhat feminized body that they don't want (i.e. if you're soft, dumpy, and weak chest). If you're into body building I suggest that taking a SERM alone is all you need (forget taking a bunch of other steroids), as it has a fairly potent effect without causing all the other issues with steroids (no acne, no bloating, no testicle shrinkage, no high blood pressure, need to inject anything, etc.)

Tamoxifen is highly tolerable but did have two side effects for me. The first was skin dryness (mostly face). Previously I always had pretty much perfect skin, but now need to moisturize and exfoliate daily. The second side effect was the one that prompted me to switch to another SERM (I'll discuss that below) and was that my Achilles tendon started to be constantly sore. This only manifested after about 5 years of taking it, and I didn't put it together with the Tamoxifen until I was reading one day about people who had experienced the same thing. It is a lesser known side effect, but is the one that I experienced the worst. Again the "common" side effects listed are for women who are losing their main sex hormone, so you have to sort through them.

You'll notice that things like stroke are listed for side effects. This is because Tamoxifen in part acts like estrogen, and as you probably know that high estrogen leads to blood clotting. Again though, this is for women who are taking Tamoxifen while their own estrogen is circulating still. I'm not a doctor, but suspect that men taking Tamoxifen won't be prone to those side effects.

Tamoxifen does put a stress on the liver, but it is relatively light. It will be detected by liver stress blood tests. But if you otherwise are good to your liver (don't drink, don't do other oral drugs that stress it), it should be fine. I also took milk thistle supplements, which have some alleged help in liver recovery.

After the Achilles tendon problem I switched to a newer SERM called Raloxifene. I've been taking that for two years now daily. It seems to have the same positive effects as Tamoxifen but solved the Achilles tendon problem. I still have quite dry skin.

For people who take these drugs along with androgen blockers, I'd say to be cautious -- your body needs some sex hormones and blocking both androgen and estrogen is really dangerous. But for men who just block their estrogen, and do so with SERMs that maintain bone density, these drugs can be worth it.

Another good news is that these drugs don't seem to be particularly controlled substances, so I've never had problems ordering them, even into Canada.

Hope that helps.

I have been on cyproterone i live in the uk and it is in tablet form here the only hair loss i have seen is body hair and pubic hair but not of the hairon my head i do have slight breast growth but only slight not even an A cup it was prescribed to me for chemical castration

I noticed loss of body hair as well, along with a change in my skin and nails. My skin became a lot drier and underarm and scrotal odors disappeared. Nails became a lot softer and prone to tearing.

I am pleased to say that almost 4 months after stopping cyproterone and estrogen nothing much has changed - yet anyway.

lindsey69 (imported) wrote: Wed Jul 20, 2011 3:16 am My desire is not to have any male sexual function at all and hope that my one year has done enough damage so that the changes are irreversible. I was wondering how long I would have to wait after stopping to see if this is indeed the case.

Speaking from my own experience, as I had started and stopped 6 times during the 4 yrs or so while I took Androcur, the period of recovery is dependent on how long I was on the meds, not quite 1 month for 1 month, but almost. And once over 6 months, any recovery of sexual functions would not be a full recovery, back to the previous self. But for me, I took the full 4 yrs of on-and-off Androcur to get to near a permanent castration state of mind.

I still want intimacy. Sexual release has very low sense of urgency now. But, I don't think I can say I am a true eunuch per se, as I still have sexual thoughts and interest, maybe once or twice a month.

I can sort of get engorged but very rarely full hard-ons. I can cum but just a little bit of clearish liquid. Seems to be functioning like some of the transgenders here in Thailand who started hormones really early in their lives.

One caveat, I kept to an extremely low maintenance dose of 25 mg/day, together with Tamoxifen. The castrating effects of Androcur might be more permanent and pronounced if you had taken higher doses.

Here is just one data point from one person's experience with Androcur.

Splitdik, Thanks a lot for the informative post on Tamoxifen. Now that I no longer take Androcur, I am still on Tamoxifen, (1) to keep my breasts from continuous growth (which they seem to be doing when I stopped both Androcur and Tamoxifen), (2) to avoid developing osteoporosis, and (3) to give me a bit more energy due to low testosterone.

I rather like the effects you mentioned about giving the muscle mass a better definition. More enthusiasm to get going on my on-and-off exercise program. (Seems like most of what I did were on-and-off, haha.)

I'll look for Raloxifene to replace my Tamoxifen. Splitdik, what were your dosages for Tamoxifen and Raloxifene?

hkeunuch (imported) wrote: Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:54 am Splitdik, Thanks a lot for the informative post on Tamoxifen. Now that I no longer take Androcur, I am still on Tamoxifen, (1) to keep my breasts from continuous growth (which they seem to be doing when I stopped both Androcur and Tamoxifen), (2) to avoid developing osteoporosis, and (3) to give me a bit more energy due to low testosterone.

I rather like the effects you mentioned about giving the muscle mass a better definition. More enthusiasm to get going on my on-and-off exercise program. (Seems like most of what I did were on-and-off, haha.)

I'll look for Raloxifene to replace my Tamoxifen. Splitdik, what were your dosages for Tamoxifen and Raloxifene?

I actually took the women's doses: 20mg Tamoxifen, 60mg Raloxifene but have been experimenting with half dose (just bite the pill in half) since I think it is probably overkill to do full woman's dose.