I think you have to first accept that having an orchiectomy "de-mans" someone. More on that later..

Its too many things at once (to complex to put into a box) I think the sexual kink your talking about is cuckolding and is mostly married guys who get off on seeing their wives have sex with other men (Or hearing about it) Some of it is probably just a slight variation on wife swapping and to other extreme it about male chastity and being humiliated. There is also a segment that is about forced homosexuality and I used the word "forced" tongue in cheek. More of an "excuse" to have homosexual contact. All very taboo all I'm sure very exciting and on the edge but... I dunno. I'm simple.... Why all this drama?

What do they say about the largest sex organ? The one between the ears? Those of us with functional sex drives can get "horny" about all sorts of things. I once had an argument with a friend who thought I might be into doing bondage with her. It was pretty much along the lines "Why isin't sex with out all the handcuffs, whips etc good enough?" And in her case I think it was lots of mental reservations about sex. She was (i think) ashamed of her needs and wanted someone to tie her up and "make her" do it to make it "ok." I dunno... its all games and making the simple complicated. Plus pain and sex don't make any sense to me.

"Castration" in and of itself I guess I think of as a complication in that a man who wants to retain his "male" wiring has to fiddle with his hormones, have PSA and DRE exams. For men like me who had testicles that were a chronic source of pain removing them was a total blessing. And while there was the months (year?) of fiddling with hormones to get it right I feel more "male" then I have in decades. Oh, and if we are talking about the male "body image" a good topic I feel more male like since my goofed up testicles were shrunken up peripuberty sized and my replacements are adult sized.

I think that the connection that exists between the chemical soup that is our bloodstream and our mental or emotional states is so complex and poorly understood that almost any theory about motivation and behavior as they relate to the testosterone in our bodies is probably defensible.

Some societies seem to believe that testosterone's relationship to aggressive behavior in males is so clearly established that there are laws that allow the chemical castration of an individual who is determined to be a risk to the population. On the other hand, the ability to become extremely angry and also act out of that rage can be completely unrelated to the level of testosterone in one's system. I'll take the word of those who report that they have experienced a "eunuch calm" after castration as evidence that such a "calm" exists, but I have never experienced such.

What does this mean in the context of this discussion? People's bodies are their own and they should do with them what they wish. Personally, I hope that individuals seek counselling before they consent to anything irrevocable and that whatever they choose to have "done" to them is carried out by licensed medical professionals acting in the best traditions of their professions and in safe, sterile settings.

Testosterone might be able to be compared with salt. Most of us probably do eat too much of it (including myself) but then on the other hand there are those "health nut" types that completely avoid salt altogether. And I did even know of one lady who actually died from the lack of salt (I think) due digestive complications because she was totally convinced that "salt was evil" and the reason for most of our health ailments. But I'm alive and she's not. I myself like having very low testosterone but I do know that a little of it IS good and perhaps I need more. I don't know. The way I see it is that testosterone is neither good nor evil. It just is. If the body gets too much it just turns around and converts into estrogen is all. And far as aggressive behavior is concerned, I've heard the same things about the amount of salt in our diet.

Maybe I'd like to go back to the original post that referenced a "romanticized concept" of being a eunuch.

To me, all this discussion revolves around insecurity (of which I have a lot) and a desire for acceptance and a "romanticized concept" of what it would be like if sexuality were of minimal or marginal significance.

I've lately thought that most of us are fundametally insecure about our identities most of the time, sexual or otherwise, with brief interludes of confidence, and that that's almost a natural condition of our humanity.

Sometimes we're just so afraid....

Michael

mrt (imported) wrote: Thu Jul 17, 2008 6:31 am I think you have to first accept that having an orchiectomy "de-mans" someone. More on that later..

Its too many things at once (to complex to put into a box) I think the sexual kink your talking about is cuckolding and is mostly married guys who get off on seeing their wives have sex with other men (Or hearing about it) Some of it is probably just a slight variation on wife swapping and to other extreme it about male chastity and being humiliated. There is also a segment that is about forced homosexuality and I used the word "forced" tongue in cheek. More of an "excuse" to have homosexual contact. All very taboo all I'm sure very exciting and on the edge but... I dunno. I'm simple.... Why all this drama?

What do they say about the largest sex organ? The one between the ears? Those of us with functional sex drives can get "horny" about all sorts of things. I once had an argument with a friend who thought I might be into doing bondage with her. It was pretty much along the lines "Why isin't sex with out all the handcuffs, whips etc good enough?" And in her case I think it was lots of mental reservations about sex. She was (i think) ashamed of her needs and wanted someone to tie her up and "make her" do it to make it "ok." I dunno... its all games and making the simple complicated. Plus pain and sex don't make any sense to me.

Finally, I'm an infrequent poster, but I hope that folks out here who clearly fantasize about a lot of stuff (not a dis of fantasy, but acknowledging and understanding the frontier between fantasy and reality is important) benefit from the experience of people like yourself who know what you are talking about.

mrt (imported) wrote: Thu Jul 17, 2008 6:31 am "Castration" in and of itself I guess I think of as a complication in that a man who wants to retain his "male" wiring has to fiddle with his hormones, have PSA and DRE exams. For men like me who had testicles that were a chronic source of pain removing them was a total blessing. And while there was the months (year?) of fiddling with hormones to get it right I feel more "male" then I have in decades. Oh, and if we are talking about the male "body image" a good topic I feel more male like since my goofed up testicles were shrunken up peripuberty sized and my replacements are adult sized.

Really thoughtful and insightful post. Thanks!

A few comments.

I think you read your "submissive" friend right. A lot of submission for many is giving up control in order to engage in things which might otherwise bring up internal prohibitions or taboos. And, you don't have to be into "pain" to give into her wishes and restrain her gently and consensually so she can find what she wants. For many of us, the "simple" is indeed "complicated."

Thanks for sharing your experience with HRT. It's taken me a long time as well to "get it right," experimenting with different, medically prescribed, delivery systems, monitoring levels with a very helpful endocrinologist, once convincing a urologist (who correctly did all of the proper tests) that an objectively alarmingly elevated PSA level was due to my making the mistake of getting the level taken too soon after my testosterone injection, and other things with which I am sure you are familiar. I fully understand your comment about feeling "more male" now. The HRT has allowed me to maintain the libido of a much younger person as I have aged and I must admit, I haven't minded that one bit.

cordonone (imported) wrote: Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:56 am Really thoughtful and insightful post. Thanks!

A few comments.

I think you read your "submissive" friend right. A lot of submission for many is giving up control in order to engage in things which might otherwise bring up internal prohibitions or taboos. And, you don't have to be into "pain" to give into her wishes and restrain her gently and consensually so she can find what she wants. For many of us, the "simple" is indeed "complicated."

Thanks for sharing your experience with HRT. It's taken me a long time as well to "get it right," experimenting with different, medically prescribed, delivery systems, monitoring levels with a very helpful endocrinologist, once convincing a urologist (who correctly did all of the proper tests) that an objectively alarmingly elevated PSA level was due to my making the mistake of getting the level taken too soon after my testosterone injection, and other things with which I am sure you are familiar. I fully understand your comment about feeling "more male" now. The HRT has allowed me to maintain the libido of a much younger person as I have aged and I must admit, I haven't minded that one bit.

My friend who was (is?) into bondage was never on my radar. She was cute but... not my type. And that was several decades ago! I think by now she has met Mister (or would it be Master?) right.

I've been emailing a few close friends on the whole "how to get HRT right" thing because its more complex then I think we think.

The first problem is that when you start it many men get a "jolt" that makes them a bit euphoric and thats just a one time thing. Chasing that is of no value.

Second if your sex drive and memory have been shot for a long time getting it back doesn't (in my case) happen for a while. You might have to be on a good dose and have proper blood levels for months to get feeling 100%. And then some of it can still be a bit objective. For example if you've sworn off sex while in the Eunuch zone some of that thinking can make allowing yourself to be sexual again more complicated. If you have had low levels for a really long time this second "puberty" can really hit like an A bomb. I am so thankful I had a good GP that focused on getting me feeling right rather then just hitting some lab level mark. And also that she was open to questions and willing to find answers when she didn't know. Hey, a doctor that doesn't know EVERYTHING? how rare is that?

cordonone (imported) wrote: Thu Jul 17, 2008 1:55 pm I think that the connection that exists between the chemical soup that is our bloodstream and our mental or emotional states is so complex and poorly understood that almost any theory about motivation and behavior as they relate to the testosterone in our bodies is probably defensible.

I think your comment is dead on. Talking to a person who has never had any changes in their hormone levels is like a blind guy telling you his favorite color.

As to Testosterone and emotions I think weird levels of it are the cause of a lot of hostility. In my case low levels = pissed off ALL the time.