IbPervert (imported) wrote: Fri Jun 13, 2008 7:35 am I feel that I have been suffering from depression for most of my life, but as I get older it is just getting worse and worse. My energy level is almost gone plus I find my self going through mood swings. The other day I was crushing soda cans to take to the recycling center, and at one point I got so upset and mad that I took out a moderate size tree/bush (we consider it a weed as they are popping up all over the yard). At the moment it is so bad I can not even hold down a normal job. Plus I have a difficult time holding on to simple facts like a bill is due, or the doctors appointment coming up. Even staying focused is difficult these days.

I am seeing a head doctor for the depression at the local clinic but this new doctor they assigned me keeps changing the medication.

Then I saw the article on low hormones in males and I started thinking that could be part of the problem. The article ran a few months ago, but I just keep forgetting about it or telling myself I will do it later. So who needs testosterone? I do at least at the moment.

I think there is a health clinic next to the mental health clinic I will try to check it out.

Thanks for the input.

Ok I understand now. I was just being silly anyway, sorry if I offended you.

joanne-f (imported) wrote: Fri Jun 13, 2008 6:29 pm Ok I understand now. I was just being silly anyway, sorry if I offended you.

I understood what you were trying to do

Unfortunately mrt's experience is a very rare exception. He is quite lucky that his doctor was willing to check his hormone levels rather than immediately diagnose "depression" and send him toward feeling much worse with a script for SSRIs. With most doctors, the symtpoms he came in with would have instantly resulted in depression and SSRIs.

Before accepting a diagnosis of depression and spending the rest of your life on SSRIs, which will probably remove any chance you have left at a decent sex life, I would make sure all medical problems are ruled out. This should be a standard requirement for any mental health professional, and yet it happens with so few. Instead, they assume the problems are always psychological.

My own psychiatrist never once wanted so much as a standard lab panel run before doping me up on mental health drugs. And now we find that I have a thyroid problem. I wonder how many others have just accepted diagnoses of "depression" (a subjective condition whose diagnosis is made after a 5-minute interview with no objective way of confirming the diagnosis, unlike medical conditions) and taken drugs that only make the problem worse when in reality they have a medical condition that needs treatment?

Mental health diagnoses should always be a last resort diagnosis, never the first. Medical conditions need to be ruled out first.

I am blessed to have an extraordinary doctor. I told her this a couple of times and her reaction was to blush but after telling her in detail "why" and giving examples she said it was unfortunate I had such bad luck with other doctors. This is one of the few things we disagree about. Frankly I don't think luck has anything to do with it. Some doctors seem to me to not be all that interested in the health and well being of their patients. Kind of an assembly line approach to meds. In particular the lack of interest in the source of the problem. For example - Ok, your acting depressed. HERE! Take these white pills. These will make those "symptoms" go away. A really good doctor asks "What causes these symptoms?" And trys as hard as possible to come up with an answer. I understand doctors are not perfect and they can come to the wrong conclusion but when they don't even try? Thats just not good. I have a lot more respect for the GP or Family doctor that looks at the whole person. This is who I want running "my" show. Its no good to see an expert in psychological meds when the cause is not been determined. If I can inject one last thought. Male hormone "health" is like a new blip on the radar screen. And some doctors are "barely" up to speed on it. We have a serious health issue with the number of men with significantly low levels. Psudo Estrogens in everything that are screwing us up and so on.

plix (imported) wrote: Sat Jun 14, 2008 12:03 pm Unfortunately mrt's experience is a very rare exception. He is quite lucky that his doctor was willing to check his hormone levels rather than immediately diagnose "depression" and send him toward feeling much worse with a script for SSRIs. With most doctors, the symtpoms he came in with would have instantly resulted in depression and SSRIs.

Before accepting a diagnosis of depression and spending the rest of your life on SSRIs, which will probably remove any chance you have left at a decent sex life, I would make sure all medical problems are ruled out. This should be a standard requirement for any mental health professional, and yet it happens with so few. Instead, they assume the problems are always psychological.

My own psychiatrist never once wanted so much as a standard lab panel run before doping me up on mental health drugs. And now we find that I have a thyroid problem. I wonder how many others have just accepted diagnoses of "depression" (a subjective condition whose diagnosis is made after a 5-minute interview with no objective way of confirming the diagnosis, unlike medical conditions) and taken drugs that only make the problem worse when in reality they have a medical condition that needs treatment?

Mental health diagnoses should always be a last resort diagnosis, never the first. Medical conditions need to be ruled out first.

joanne-f (imported) wrote: Thu Jun 12, 2008 10:38 pm Who would want to have more testosterone? It's a horrible thing... LOL!

I love being horny. I just love it and I miss it when I am on medication.

Just intensely missed sex and I still wish I had more of it than I do. My experience of low hormonal levels is basically negative, even though I am alone and do not have a lover.

My internal medicine physician immediately arranged for HRT when he saw the my testosterone level was extremely low. My urologist responded immediately when I asked about ED medications. I have never had ED but I have, as those who have read my posts know, I have had low libido.

My first psychiatrist was not helpful but the second one was helpful--always helpful. You do have to raise your voice sometimes.

mrt (imported) wrote: Sat Jun 14, 2008 9:27 pm I am blessed to have an extraordinary doctor. I told her this a couple of times and her reaction was to blush but after telling her in detail "why" and giving examples she said it was unfortunate I had such bad luck with other doctors. This is one of the few things we disagree about. Frankly I don't think luck has anything to do with it. Some doctors seem to me to not be all that interested in the health and well being of their patients. Kind of an assembly line approach to meds. In particular the lack of interest in the source of the problem. For example - Ok, your acting depressed. HERE! Take these white pills. These will make those "symptoms" go away. A really good doctor asks "What causes these symptoms?" And trys as hard as possible to come up with an answer. I understand doctors are not perfect and they can come to the wrong conclusion but when they don't even try? Thats just not good. I have a lot more respect for the GP or Family doctor that looks at the whole person. This is who I want running "my" show. Its no good to see an expert in psychological meds when the cause is not been determined. If I can inject one last thought. Male hormone "health" is like a new blip on the radar screen. And some doctors are "barely" up to speed on it. We have a serious health issue with the number of men with significantly low levels. Psudo Estrogens in everything that are screwing us up and so on.

From the little I know, Testosterone levels of around 30--50 are pretty much the nadir of what the body will produce without testicles (I think the adrenal glands secrete a little, but check with your endocrinologist). My level was 30 after an extended period without HRT. The normal range, depending on your age is somewhere between 500 and 1,300. Personally, I find the injections to be the best, but this is pretty subjective and depends on how you feel about jamming a needle into your body on a periodic basis. It's also the least expensive, at least where I live. As for the really subjective stuff about sex drive, etc., that's up to each individual, IMO. If I go an extended period without the shot, I lose my libido and, after a while, I notice other changes in my body.

cordonone (imported) wrote: Thu Jun 19, 2008 5:16 pm From the little I know, Testosterone levels of around 30--50 are pretty much the nadir of what the body will produce without testicles (I think the adrenal glands secrete a little, but check with your endocrinologist). My level was 30 after an extended period without HRT. The normal range, depending on your age is somewhere between 500 and 1,300. Personally, I find the injections to be the best, but this is pretty subjective and depends on how you feel about jamming a needle into your body on a periodic basis. It's also the least expensive, at least where I live. As for the really subjective stuff about sex drive, etc., that's up to each individual, IMO. If I go an extended period without the shot, I lose my libido and, after a while, I notice other changes in my body.

It depends on the labs scale as well some scales are not the same as far as the refrence ranges go it could be 300-800 for example or 400-1200 etc.

Normally you need both Total and Free Testosterone measured.

Gels are known to work well after you get the correct dosing as they prodcue a more consistant Testosterone level for younger guys I understand this is the best option to try first. To affored gels alternate alternatives are sometimes available, you would want your Physician to talk to a compounding Pharmacy to get a formula that would work for you and your Physician.

For me I think the gels will work as this is what I have been prescribed for the last 6 months and the gel works well.

My personal opinion.

I started out with capsules that had to be swallowed and my T level went up and down like a yo-yo. Problem was that my tummy sometimes digested the stuff before it had chance to do its job. My Doctor suggested I try patches; they were fine for a few months then they began to really irritate my skin. Next I had injections of Sustenon every 2 weeks, which worked really well apart from the inconvenience of organising my life around fortnightly visits to the Health Centre. For the last couple of years I've been on Nebido, which requires one injection every 12 weeks. I like having a penis that functions (until I get a penectomy but that's another story) and I like not having to worry about osteoporosis or depression.

I'd really recommend testosterone replacement, except of course for M2F folk.