IEUNUCH,

I sympathize with you, my friend. As an ex-Canadian I can fully understand your distress. The Canadian Medical system is in the process of breaking down because of (in my opinion) abuse and over-zealous users. the result is that they keep cutting back benefits.

The good news is, if you can believe this eunuch, you do not need testosterone unless you wish an active sex life. As for osteoporosis, I do not believe the warnings and threats of doctors who have more or less assumed that since females without hormones lose bone densities, men without hormones will do the same. The cold truth is that there simply are no conclusive studies (that I have found).

I am a eunuch and am not taking testosterone. So far my bone density is holding, but I promise to keep all on this board informed. I am also not totally dysfunctional sexually, but I'm close. Again, I believe the use of testosterone replacement is entirely dependent on your age and motives.

BossTamsin (imported) wrote: Wed Feb 27, 2002 12:20 pm Hmm.... no, haven't seen the e-mail.

Shall I try to resend it? Ifso, to what e-mail address? I tried to use the one that the Message Board system assigned to you.

IEUNUCH,

Charlieje (imported) wrote: Wed Feb 27, 2002 1:54 pm The good news is, if you can believe this eunuch, you do not need testosterone unless you wish an active sex life. As for osteoporosis, I do not believe the warnings and threats of doctors who have more or less assumed that since females without hormones lose bone densities, men without hormones will do the same. The cold truth is that there simply are no conclusive studies (that I have found).

Well, from the bit that I've read, based upon studies of hypogonadal/andropausal men, osteoporosis at least can happen. No guarantees, but it is a possibility.

For me, though, osteo runs heavily through my family (as do a lot of other nasty things), so that is one of the things I am worried about. As important, though (or possibly more) are the mental health issues. Ask anyone who knows me, my mental health isn't all that stable at the best of times. Without testosterone, it sinks farther and faster. Without going too much into specifics and other things that would likely bore/annoy the majority on here, I can say that bad things will happen should I be off it too long.

However, it is incredibly difficult to properly explain mental health issues to anyone who hasn't dealt with them personally. Physical things like osteo are much simpler to grasp for most people. So I think I will present the osteo/physical health aspect first, and leave the mental health issues for second.

IEunuch.

(Mental health: Just say no!)

I have seen studies that suggest bone density can decrease up to 39% when taking anti-androgens. I will post a link when I find one.

This problem can always be solved with calcium supplements.

By the way, Canadians, if you don't like your governer (I assume that is who Gordon Campbell is) you may have Janet Reno. He has already been castrated...or is it she?...both? Whatever.

IEunuch,

This site lists a number of side effects of low adrogen hormones:

http://www.hypertext.org/ENGLISH/HB.html

The list is extensive, and makes me wonder why HRT is considered an unnecessary treatment for those who are castrated.

Osteoporosis is a serious risk when you are castrated (either surgically or chemically). At www.oncology.com one article states:

"In another retrospective review, history of orchiectomy, other risk factors for osteoporosis, and incidence of fractures were evaluated in 235 men with prostate cancer (6). Among 59 men with a history of orchiectomy, 14% had at least one osteoporotic fracture compared to only 1% of men with prostate cancer with no history of orchiectomy or treatment with a GnRH agonist (p=0.001). The cumulative rates of fracture seven years after castration or diagnosis were 28% and 1%, respectively (p=0.001). Among the men surviving longer than five years after orchiectomy, 38% had one or more osteoporotic fractures. Osteoporotic fractures were more common than traumatic or pathological fractures.

...Collectively, these prospective studies suggest that orchiectomy or chronic treatment with a GnRH agonist results in a 5% to 10% annual decrease in BMD in elderly men, a magnitude of bone loss that markedly exceeds the rate of bone loss associated with menopause (5). Extrapolation from fracture data in women suggests that each one to two years of gonadal steroid deprivation for prostate cancer increases fracture risk by two-fold.

. "

So I would say it is a serious health risk.

---------

Madscientist,

To properly counteract the risk of osteoporosis, you need a combination of medication (to inhibit bone reabsorbsion), high daily calcium intake, vitamin D, and strength training. It can be managed, but does require a daily regimen.

Thank you once again everyone for your help with this matter. I tried to present all the information I could, about all the issues involved. I managed to convince my doctor that it was a medically necessary medication. All to no avail.

The BC provincial government has come down with a final ruling. No coverage for testosterone. No exemptions. No matter what. Period.

So, I'm screwed. I've run out, and am now on week 3 of no testosterone. Needless to say, my mood and mental health have taken quite a beating. Not to mention all the other hellish things that are going on in my life right now.

Now if only I could afford booze or drugs to take away the pain...

IEunuch.

(I hate my fucking life...)

IEunuch,

Do you know whether they are still covering estrogen? If they are then I suggest starting a discrimination suit against the government.

I can't see how estrogen would be any more necessary than testosterone.

SplitDick (imported) wrote: Mon Mar 11, 2002 10:49 am IEunuch,

Do you know whether they are still covering estrogen? If they are then I suggest starting a discrimination suit against the government.

I can't see how estrogen would be any more necessary than testosterone.

I wonder if IEunuch could get estrogen prescribed for him instead? I heard that that would help with osteoperosis too...

For those like us who live in BC, here is a statement from the ministry of health regarding coverage plans:

http://www.hlth.gov.bc.ca/cpa/newsrel/services/218.html

I really wonder what the AIDS societies have to say -- my understanding is that testosterone is an important hormone for AIDS patients in order to help them retain muscle mass.

Again, if they still cover estrogen then they are being very discriminatory. What is the difference between a woman who had an ovarectomey and a man who had an orchiectomy? Both are lacking a serious hormonal component in their body, and there are not "less expensive alternatives".