Physical Sign of Being Transexual

[punkypink (imported)]

hey Pink , do you think you might be a little overly concerned with this monumentally tiny aspect of transexualism, when it seems to be just a gender differential, a few contrary results aside, especially considering you are not exactly applying the rigorous standards of the scientific method.

Yes, because I would rather fellow transpeople leave the vicious cycle of basing their validation on unreliable superficialities. More importantly, because it's not a

monumentally tiny aspect of trans

sexualism. It is NOT an aspect of transsexualism at all.

This does not seem to be a gender differential at all, it is NOT a FEW contrary results. The "few" contrary results which you refer to, is now a "77 out of 88 cisgendered physical males" with tapered arms. Hardly "a few" contrary results, at least to logical, rationally-thinking people.

Finally, if my method is not scientifically rigourous enough, neither is the basis on which this "test for transsexualism" was based on.

[punkypink (imported)]

Ok but WHY can I do the chair test?!?

Because it's just as rubbish as the tapering arms test for telling if one's a girl or not. I might as well say "oh hey, I breathe I must be a girl!" I keep getting visions of a book going "Oooooohhh I have preeeeeeeetty pictures on my cover therefore I MUUUUUUUUSTTTTTT be a good

read!" *cue melodrama and hissy fits by said book*

Of course I AM getting older....

I tried the other test (the Cogiti?) but I think its a bit too direct and for those of us who don't cross dress rather ahh pointless to

take... I think? Or are those "trick" questions.

Don't go breaking something important

[punkypink (imported)]

Well my poll has gathered 100 replies. (101 including myself)

The breakdown:

97 male identified respondents.

3 female identified respondents. (1 cisgendered, 1 transgendered, 1 unknown)

Of the 97 male identified respondents:

84 have outwards tapering arms (aka "transsexual arms")

13 have parallel arms (aka "male arms)

It might not be too scientific a method, but I think a sample size of 100 is quite ample proof, that outwards tapering arms is NOT a sign of transsexualism in a physical male. It seems to be the normal physical arrangement of MOST people's arms when held palm facing forwards.

(On the other hand some people still refused to believe the earth was round and not flat even in the face of overwhelming proof, so you're all free to believe what you like, even if it's utterly foolish! Just don't be selfishly using your beliefs to mislead other transpeople into the same vicious circle of ignorance that you've trapped yourself in.)

[coinflipper_21 (imported)]

All this brings back memories of being 13 years old and the boys speculating if you could tell whether or not a girl had "done it" by looking at her legs.

[A-1 (imported)]

All this brings back memories of being 13 years old and the boys speculating if you could tell whether or not a girl had "done it" by looking at her legs.

Sure, yeah... I remember now... ...DONE IT! (http://www.fotosearch.com/bigcomp.asp?p ... D16001.jpg)

...NOT DONE IT! (http://www.fotosearch.com/bigcomp.asp?p ... D16008.jpg)

[punkypink (imported)]

The guys on the forums where I conducted the poll says it reminds them of the thing in sch where if your hand could cover your face you had cancer/aids/was gay and where you waited for people to put their hands in fron of their faces before smacking their hand into their faces

[devi (imported)]

I am XXY chromosomed. My hands neither go in nor do they go out unless I am tapping out a melody with the coins in my pockets or on the railings. They are about as straight as a soldier's. Only once did I get accused of walking "feminine" and that was by a short-lived girlfriend. Her main contentions were that I had no slump as I walked, that my arms swung back and forth "wildly" as I walked -more so than any male could, that probably my heels never touched the ground and I was walking on my toes "like a ballerina" (actually I like to think "sprinter"), that my gait went more up and down rather than side to side but was very smooth. She laughed at me saying that if she ever wanted to find me she'd just look for the girl in the loose guy clothes. She also said that when it came to stairs I was exactly a kid taking two at a time in no time. But she never did mention about whether my hands point outward or inward.

[transward (imported)]

It's clear that Ms Pink is correct that the test is totally bogus. As described, with the thumb pointing outward, all the test measures is whether the elbow joint is hyper-mobile, a condition much more common among women than men. (http://www.trcb.com/health-and-fitness/ ... y-4288.htm) As the link points out, about 3-4% of the population has hyper-mobility,a result not that far off Ms Pink's experiment.

However, that is the point that I am driving at, that the recognition of an individual's identity should be on the basis of who they are inside, not what they appear to do superficially. There are cisgendered women who are just as unfeminine, who "learned masculine behavioural traits" and yet are acknowledged as female. I think while Biolab's research shows that people perceive male elbows to be (0) shaped while female elbows to be )8( shaped, the truth is, the perceived differences do not match up to reality. Remember, what is socially perceived is hardly dependable, go back 150 years in american history and black people were socially perceived to be inferior. That wasn't true either was it? That society is sadly not as enlightned yet, and that many transwomen are learning what is socially perceived as "female behaviour" because the ends justifies the means, is not something to be proud of at all, nor does it really indicate that a person is transsexed.

Something like this: "

That is why trans and drag queens are told to rotate their

hands out, it forces them to the feminine angle

" just makes a person appear to be a caricature of feminity. I don't think someone is female just because he or she holds her arms out like that you know, instead I would think they're TRYING to pretend to be one, and honestly just a poor parody of one no matter how perfect their "female" posture and walk is. Some of the best passing transpeople I know do not bother with superficial stereotypes at all. It such a crying shame to depend on something crass like social stereotypes instead of letting inner

confidence in one's own identity be the critical factor.

But it is wrong to consider gender behavior as superficial. Behaviorists have cataloged dozens of signs we read to decide the sex of someone. In the privacy of your own mind you can be anything you want. The problem comes when we want others to recognize that change. Ms Pink is fortunate in that she is small and pretty, which means she is two thirds of the way to being recognized as female. Those not so fortunate, have to change the gender signs they broadcast to have any hope of success. They grow their hair out or buy long wigs. Is this a superficial sign? Of course; lots of women have short hair and lots of men have long. But for the majority of cultures, long hair is a sign of femininity. Even in our enlightened times the first thing frustrated parents say to their long haired sons is "You look like a girl." They learn how to sit and cross their legs, how to gesture etc. All these are, on the surface, superficial, but they are visible, what is going on inside is not. If you refuse to walk like a duck, quack like a duck or act like a duck, you cannot complain about people not recognizing you as a duck.

Transward

[transward (imported)]

If you look like Paris Hilton and act like John Wayne, you are likely to still be perceived as female, but if you look like John Wayne and act like John Wayne, I can guarantee you will be perceived as male, no matter what your "inner confidence in your own identity" feels.

Transward

[punkypink (imported)]

I know tons of short haired, andro looking girls who do not behave in any way like girls. Nobody thinks they're guys. They're just thought of as kickass girls. I'm also reminded of my trans friends who do not have the exterior pre-requisites to be socially considered female, and some who are even clearly externally masculine. I've noticed that they ARE accepted as being female even by the general public, by people who're only interacting with them for the 1st time, primarily because of their confidence just make it seem impossible to consider them anything other than women. Finally, lots of catwalk models are actually very trans-looking, often with broad manly shoulders, literally no boobs, and faces that I would call striking to the point of masculine rather than pretty and feminine. Nobody mistakes them for guys or even MtFs either.

My point is that you can look like a duck, and force yourself to behave like what you think ducks should behave, but if you really aren't a typical duck, then people will just realise something is wrong when you constantly seem ill at ease. Socially perceived behaviour only works if you are a feminine girl on the inside. What most transpeople need to get down pat is their self-esteem, self-belief. Looks and superficial behaviour can then be tailored to suit the individual. That inner belief is like a cake. The superficiality is the icing and the cherry on top of the cake. It's nice to have but it doesn't make a cake a cake, and not everything with icing and a cherry on top is a cake. If you don't get the cake right, all the icing and cherries in the world will be pointless.

(Lots of long haired dudes I know here never had their parents say they look like a girl. It's always along the lines of "you look like a tramp" )