Rockets, spaceplanes, orbiters, Von Braun and other topics

[erikboy (imported)]

For information, there was V1 called also "buzzbomb", they flew slowly enough for fighters to intercept them. British were able to detect them with the help of radars giving enough time for fighters to take off. It was not advised to shoot buzzbombs, as they contained approx. 1t explosives and when exploding flying debris damaged fighters quite often. Instead fighters flied to one side of fuzzbomb and with the help of their wing pushed it off course.

There was also V2, which was developed by von Braun. V2 could carry 1t explosives like V1, only it was a ballistic missile flying at speeds up to mach 5. It was not possible to intercept them and due to their speed radars did not give any useful ahead warning time. They just came out of blue in silence and exploded. Both weapons were highly inaccurate. I remember that V1 was 10 times cheaper to produce than V2.

There were plans for intercontinental ballistic missile. There were some drawings. But it never developed to any hardware tests.

[fhunter]

Both weapons were highly inaccurate. I remember that V1 was 10 times cheaper to produce than V2.

There were plans for intercontinental ballistic missile. There were some drawings. But it never developed to any hardware tests.

If I remember correctly, the only guidance for the autopilot on V1 was a compass and a primitive distance counter.

On the over hand, using modern of-the-shelf components, you can create faily accurate guidance system, for a reasonable price (I'd say for under $500, if you are using something like dealextreme/ebay).

[Dave (imported)]

They didn't need too much accuracy to cause the Brits to use more of their resources than necessary to guard against V1s and V2s.

That was the purpose - scare the population so much that the airforce had to devote fighters away from Germany (defending bombers) and over the British Islands.

And touching the wingtip of a rather small 1 on buzzbomb while flying low was amazingly dangerous and once again, that fighter plane was way more expensive and the pilots were a scarce commodity than that simple unmanned buzzbomb.

[gunnutz (imported)]

If you like discussing German engineered weapons of world war 2 take a look at this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horten_Ho_229

Talk about ahead of its time.

[fhunter]

If you like discussing German engineered weapons of world war 2 take a look at this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horten_Ho_229

Talk about ahead of its time.

There was one more interesting and, fortunately, never finished project: "Silbervogel", suborbital bomber. The original design was from 1930-s. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silbervogel

[Dave (imported)]

I heard Von Braun speak at Carnegie Mellon University in fall 1969 or spring '70, I can't remember the year exactly. He spoke of the past and future of three stage rocketry and really did take the attitude that he was not responsible for the Wehrmacht using his missiles against England. It was the defense of all scientists - I didn't invent the weapon, the generals and politicians made war. This was a big push for technology after the we landed on the moon when science was cool and learning was glorified in the minds of everyone.

Von Braun spoke with a very refined German Accent over an Alabama drawl. That was startling because I had two years of German in High School and had just spent a summer working in New York City.

[Dave (imported)]

There was one more interesting and, fortunately, never finished project: "Silbervogel", suborbital bomber. The original design was from 1930-s. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silbervogel

A big problem with these was the control of the thrust out the nozzle. It's a matter of temperature and force being applied.

The first lesson that was learned was that single stage rockets couldn't carry enough fuel to put much of a satellite into orbit or throw a big enough bomb across the ocean in a ballistic orbit.

HINT for the unscientific among us, ICBM is intercontinental BALLISTIC missile. If you listen to the Tom Lehrer that MOI pointed out above, he has Von Braun saying he only cares how they go up and not where they come down. No matter how sophisticated these missiles get, once the fuel is gone they are like bullets (or rocks) and their path obeys the laws of physics that we all got in High School. That part of rocket science isn't complicated. Think of firing bullets into the air or arrows or cannonballs -- they follow ballistic paths.

To get off that digression - The metals and materials that are used in rocket nozzles are fairly exotic to take the heat and not let the fuel burn back up into the missile body (then it goes boom all at once). Hitler and the Nazi's were too worried about the war to develop the appropriate materials. They already had huge-ass guns that could fire across the British Channel thanks to Krupp and the relative success of the buzzbomb in diverting British air forces served them well until the Allies beat the Luftwaffe. Then anything that moved in Germany got bombed and destroyed - trains, trucks, airfields... Thus Von Braun never had the materials to get past the single stage V1s and V2s.

Also, the really creepy Nazi's -- the SS arrested Von Braun as a traitor for even making the drawings of the three stage rocket and suggesting that it could reach North America. They considered it treason because it was diverting materials from the war at hand. Hitler intervened and stopped the SS.

When the Allied troops opened a cave in Eastern Germany where Von Braun stashed his plans, the Russian Army was advancing not much more than a mile away. Those plans were the advantage that the USA had in the space race. The USA forces captured roughly 2/3 to 3/4 of the scientists who worked with Von Braun (and Von Braun himself).

I will tell you why I got interested in this (aside from being a nerd).

My Aunt was working for a lawyer with a picture on his wall -- it was four people from WW2 shot of her boss, Werner and Magnus Von Braun and General Eisenhower. And if you do that "six degrees of Kevin Bacon" parlor game then whoever reads this is #6 from Adolf Hitler, Dwight Eisenhower, Winston Churchill and quite a few others. It really is a very small world. My copy of "THE ROCKET TEAM" was my Aunt's and is signed by her boss who captured Von Braun.

So that, on a December 30th, is why and how I got interested in this.

[moi621 (imported)]

My father whose family was killed off by the Nazi war in the USSR worked with some of those rocket scientist in the early 50's.

When chided by Jewish friends he would ask

them what they did during the McCarthy hearings.

We were also the first part of the family to own a VW

[erikboy (imported)]

On the over hand, using modern of-the-shelf components, you can create faily accurate guidance system, for a reasonable price (I'd say for under $500, if you are using something like dealextreme/ebay).

If I remember correctly, e-bay wasn't available in Germany back these days. :p

[erikboy (imported)]

And touching the wingtip of a rather small 1 on buzzbomb while flying low was amazingly dangerous and once again, that fighter plane was way more expensive and the pilots were a scarce commodity than that simple unmanned buzzbomb.

Actually they didn't touch wingtip. My memory wasn't correct. Wikipedia says: "These included using the airflow over an interceptor's wing to raise one wing of the V-1, by sliding the wingtip to within 6 in (15 cm) of the lower surface of the V-1's wing. If properly executed, this manoeuvre would tip the V-1's wing up, overriding the gyros and sending the V-1 into an out-of-control dive."

and:

"Attacking a V-1 was dangerous: machine guns had little effect on the V-1's sheet steel structure, and if a cannon shell detonated the warhead, the explosion could destroy the attacker." Wikipedia says also that some 350 Aircraft were lost to V-1 but this data needs to be clarified. How many mechanical failures there were, and how related these losses were, as there were not so many aircrafts capable of chasing V-1 at low altitudes.

Most effective against the V-1 were antiaircraft artillery, responsible for 60-80% of V-1 destruction.